The Dreaded Subaru Head Gasket Issue

1/30/2014

Non turbo 4 cylinder applications all have head gasket issues, you've heard this before, most of you know this, and yes its a result of a bad/faulty design with the gasket.

The factory gaskets have a coating that deteriorates over time (typically between 80-120k miles. That range is dependent on if you've run the SOA mandatory coolant conditioner, which is designed to get you past that 100k mile hump).

The symptom of leaking "head gaskets" is oil weeping between the head/block surfaces. This weep over time turns into a significant leak, which then turns into coolant leaking as well, after that symptom you often times will go into overheating, from there its a few mile slippery slope...which then has coolant and oil intermingling together.

If you haven't guessed it yet, this is where bearings get trashed, you develop a rod knock and hopefully at this point you've realized its about to be over but recognize before the next critical stage.

The sad thing is....it doesn't need to get to this point. If you work with a specialty shop its easy to point out early on when this is happening (at the weeping stage) and proactively fixing it. By doing so, you 1- secure your investment with your vehicle, 2- save yourself the headache of being broken down on the side of the road, and 3- you get to enjoy your car for another X amount of miles b/c you didn't let it catastrophically fail.

Did you know when we do head gasket jobs here at LIC Motorsports we don't install the same gaskets that do the same thing? Would you be shocked to know that the dealer and most other independents still install these bad/faulty gaskets to this day when they perform this job (reason being is Subaru hasn't revised the gasket on the older SOHC vehicles).

These vehicles all have cylinder head gasket related issues:

Impreza 1999 to 2011
Forester 1999 to 2010
Legacy 2000 to 2009
Outback 2000 to 2009
Baja 2003 to 2006

You can purchase revised/upgraded gaskets here: Non Turbo Upgraded MLS Head Gaskets

More info about our Head Gasket Service here: Maintenance Service Page

Here is images of when someone has let it go to far and more or less driven there car into the "ground" (that slurry leaking out is the "milkshake" of coolant/oil that has mixed).

97 Comments

NewOwner

6/13/2018 01:38:54 pm

Just bought 2009 Subaru Outback Special 2.5i with 98k miles for $9,900 in perfect condition. Only thing wrong slight leak from oil pan gasket and will have mechanic repair for $240. Last year previous owner at 83k miles replaced power steering pump, timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, valve cover gaskets, head gaskets at Subaru Dealer. They installed gaskets part#11044AA633 single layered. I found from reading the old blog it is better to use the MLS or FelPro, etc but previous owner didn't request either. Question: How long do I have before the heads leak again? Was the original 83k a good estimate to hope for?

Noah

6/13/2018 02:00:04 pm

Really just depends on how they did the repair work. If they resurfaced the heads and did the job properly (which they don't all do), it'll last that 80-100k ish. If they didn't resurface the cylinder heads and just slapped it together (which is common for dealers to do), you'll be lucky to get 30k out of it.

NewOwner

6/13/2018 02:08:58 pm

Thanks for your quick reply! Would they list resurfacing the heads on the Dealer repair/work order (it's not listed on what they gave me)? Or do I have to call and quiz them on their procedure? Thanks Again!

Noah

6/13/2018 03:17:26 pm

NewOwner- yes it would be listed on your repair order/invoice if it was done.

Josh Isralowitz

7/7/2018 10:06:10 am

2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5i owner with 60k miles here.

I do regular (3-4k miles) oil changes, don't drive it cold in winter, plan to do a coolant flush at 70k miles and use the OEM conditioner, and changed (and will continue to change) the battery before any real corrosion occurred,

Anything else I can do to get the head gasket past the 100k mark? Does it matter what kind of oil I use? Does gumout every now and then help?

LIC Motorsprots

7/9/2018 07:55:56 am

That year/make/model does not have the issues mentioned in this post. Subaru revised the gaskets in 2010 for the outback and legacy's. Although with that being said, we do still see a lot of HG issues on your model car, reason being is the cars tend to run hot, which warp the heads, which leads to HG repair as well....but its not due to a faulty gasket like the older models mentioned in this post.

John

7/7/2018 07:15:48 pm

I believe only the 2.5l engines had this issue. The 2.2l is generally fine. Mine has 270k on it and is only now barely starting to weep oil I think, but not enough to register on the dipstick

LIC Motorsports

7/9/2018 07:57:39 am

correct, as mentioned in this article, its for the SOHC 2.5L vehicles. The 2.2L is the best motor Subaru made and commonly get 300k+ miles. It's a shame they stopped producing these almost 20 years ago.

Cindy

8/10/2018 02:47:24 am

Still searching for my older model beloved Outback...kissed a lot of pigs this past year and been on my share of wild goose chases. Came across an 06 LL Bean 154,000 one owner, never wrecked. Clean
Anything with this year to look out for. Thanks 😊

LIC Motorsports

8/10/2018 09:12:59 am

Those are great engines but typically have significant oil leaks at that mileage but that's normal for year/make/model.

Cindy

8/10/2018 10:13:05 am

Too many miles for your liking?
Should I continue my search.?
Highly value your opinion.
Thank you...appreciate you very much

Cindy

8/10/2018 10:19:38 am

Can anything be done to correct this oil leak issue? Is it a big deal or a manageable thing if it's a good car.

LIC Motorsports

8/10/2018 10:22:07 am

Cindy- Its ok mileage for the year/model. Yes it can all be fixed, its just costly on the 6 cyl models but if you get the car for a decent price, well worth it and manageable

Cindy

8/10/2018 12:00:00 pm

It's being checked out now...but has a few places on it I'm not liking.👎
I guess I'm gravitating towards the 6 cyl. Because of the 4 cyl head gasket issue. But I love the llbean
Thank you as always

LIC Motorsports

8/10/2018 01:56:36 pm

I think you're likely best to stick with a 6 cyl model, although they have some issues at higher mileage, if well maintained, they outlast the 4 cyl by at min 50%

Cindy

8/11/2018 02:48:18 am

Many, many thanks❤️

Cindy

8/19/2018 10:47:29 am

Just had to let you know how it played out. Doesn't it feel nice to be right when you give advice!!
Well, you were absolutely correct. The 06 LL Bean 6cyl.
Had a MAJOR oil leak..oil pan gasket...
Off to the Auction it went for some poor soul to buy!

Your the best...
Just want your followers to see....YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT👍

LIC Motorsports

8/20/2018 07:30:50 am

Always happy to speak honestly and to help ;-)

Michael Jones link

10/19/2018 11:15:07 am

What are your thoughts on the 2.5L turbo motor, i.e. 2005 Legacy GT.

Same HG issues as on the NA motors or worse?

LIC Motorsports

10/19/2018 11:31:16 am

Turbo models are fine, they do not suffer the same flaw as the NA gaskets - as they are MLS from the factory.

Thomas Schmoller

10/25/2018 04:47:06 am

Does the head gasket problem plague the n/a 2.0L 2011 Impreza's I've not seen anything online about there 2.0l engines, only 2.5/2.2

LIC Motorsports

10/25/2018 08:07:25 am

Although the FA/FB motors do NOT suffer from head gasket issues as mentioned in this article - do know that the 11-13's were part of a class action lawsuit due to massive motor oil consumption issues. https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

We have seen issues all the way up to model year 2014 and highly recommend only 15+ models (which we have seen no issues with to date).

Zach

11/18/2018 07:53:24 pm

Have a 2011 Subaru Outback Prem 2.5 non turbo with 156k miles. Started to overheat the other night for the first time and spewed coolant out of the reservoir. Have had an issue with a leak from the bottom hose previously which threw the code. Got it fixed and it drove perfect for 3 days. No mayo on the stick or filler cap, no mysterious disappearance of coolant, no white smoke, no bubbles in the radiator or reservoir so I’m kind of stumped. Don’t want to go to a Subaru dealer and them say it’s HG but I’m kind of feeling like that’s what’s going to happen. Any advice?

LIC Motorsports

11/19/2018 07:43:17 am

Sounds like the car for sure overheated due lack of coolant in the system - likely from that lower hose connection you mentioned. Which has resulted in warped head(s) - when heads warp, exhaust gases will push the coolant out of the system and out the reservoir bottle....that's a blown head gaskets unfortunately.

Sabry Soliman

1/20/2019 10:57:37 am

I just bought a 2009 Subaru Outback in March 2018, 2 moth after I bought it the dealer confirmed a HG leaking in both sides, I read about the faulty engine and HG design, if I used a cooper racing and performance HG, would this will be better fix to overcome the faulty design?

LIC Motorsports

1/21/2019 09:03:18 am

There is upgraded gaskets now available. I wouldn't use a copper gasket and/or spray, as copper needs to be retorqued once installed and doing that on a Subaru is out of the question.

Cindy

2/9/2019 04:05:08 pm

Hi there...
I finally found my Subaru. 2005 outback llbean in prestine condition. Adult owned well maintained.
145,000.

......Which oil brand should I use ?

......which weight?

Thank you
Cindy

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 08:21:28 am

Hello Cindy, we use Motul 8100 5w30 or 5w40 depending on mileage of the car and climate you're in.

Cindy

2/11/2019 08:36:49 am

145,000 Norfolk Va. East coast

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 08:38:36 am

stick with 5w30

Cindy

2/11/2019 08:41:13 am

Since I do not know the history of weather synthetic oil was used, should I start NOW using synthetic oil?
Thank you

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 08:48:26 am

Synthetic should be used in everything these days.

Cindy

2/11/2019 08:51:11 am

You are the Subaru GURU.....Thank you👍❤️

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 09:00:25 am

No problem...

Jaysan

3/1/2019 05:51:13 am

Hi, I’m currently shopping for a used Subaru Baja Turbo. If I’ve understood the previous comments correctly, I shouldn’t have to worry about the head gadget issues right? Is there anything I should be looking out for?

LIC Motorsports

3/1/2019 07:46:24 am

Although the turbo models do not suffer from the issues mentioned in this article, it doesn't mean it can't still have head gasket related issues - but it won't be due to the faulty design. As with any turbo model Subaru, you'd want records that someone has been diligently maintaining it.

Joad

3/9/2019 06:09:18 am

Hello,
My wife & I have a ‘98 Forester. It is the n/a 2.5 5-speed with about 225k miles on it. It started overheating with about 205k miles on it. Everything was pointing to head gaskets so I pulled the engine & did those. I took the heads to a reputable local machine shop that I’ve been using for many years. I went ahead and had them do a full head service including a valve job & surfacing while they had them. I used Fel-Pro gaskets & head bolts for reassembly. At this time I figured at least this part of the car would be good for another 100k (other than scheduled maintenance) so I did the timing belt, water pump, most coolant hoses & vacuum lines using mostly original OEM parts.

Now at the 225k mark, only 20k later, it looks like there is already another head gasket issue with overheating & funky coolant. I’m kinda blaming my wife’s slightly aggressive driving style. lol The car isn’t perfect but it’s still solid enough that I don’t mind throwing more effort at it but I certainly would like to avoid this happening again so quick if I do decide to go back into it. I really like keeping cars rolling well past what most consider their useful life span. But with the recent purchase of a business my time is at a bit of a premium so I’m just trying to decide if it makes sense. I’ve thought of maybe getting a whole rebuilt engine of some type.

What are your thoughts/advice on this car?

Thanks!
Joad

LIC Motorsports

3/11/2019 10:02:19 am

Sounds like you did the right things and did the job complete - as it should be done. Hard to say ultimately what you got going on from a distance but I would question if you used an OEM/Genuine water pump. I see you listed mostly OEM stuff but did you happen to use an aftermarket water pump? If not, check out this article: https://www.licmotorsports.com/blog/why-we-use-oem-subaru-genuine-water-pumps

Bob

3/11/2019 12:31:05 pm

Hello, I have a 2003 Legacy Outback with 110,500 miles. Seven years ago, at 75,900 miles, I had to replace the cylinder head gasket because of an external oil leak. At that time, the dealer said that the catalyst was "below efficiency" and had to be replaced. Expensive! Now, only 34,600 miles later, it is developing an external oil leak again. My questions are: 1) Was the catalyst failure caused by a leak of the head gasket and contamination of the combustion gases? 2) Since there is evidence of an external leak at the head gasket, is it a certainty that fuel, coolant, and/or oil are mixing internally, too? 3) If I drive short distances (2 miles to work and store, occasionally 50 miles to the airport) how do I tell if I'm wrecking the engine? 4) Is there anything I can do besides replace the head gasket again? Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

3/11/2019 12:43:26 pm

If you had the same gaskets installed (meaning OEM ones), it would be expected within 10 years that they would leak again - as Subaru has never corrected the issue with the gaskets.

I have never seen HG's destroy the catalytic converters, although you can get a false test stating they're bad when the HG's are bad. If you let it go for far too long and intermingling of fluids happened, yes it would be expected that the cat's would get damaged. Once you have a leak externally, its a slippery slope. You might be the person whom makes it another 10k before catastrophic failure or 10 miles....there is no way of knowing and if you have the oil and coolant mixing, you got a short distance/miles before it breaks.

Once you see the leak, its needs to be fixed, unless you're reserved to the fact of letting it catastrophically fail. But don't risk damaging it, then repairing it, only to find out after the fact you damaged it by driving it for too long while the HG's were bad.

Joseph

3/15/2019 06:12:18 pm

HI, I am deliberating on whether to have a head gasket job done on my 2006 Subaru Tribeca with 150,000 miles. The cost is nearly eclipsing the value of the vehicle. My question is whether this is straightforward engine repair or is their a likelihood of additional hidden damage to internal parts, or cracks in the engine block, cylinder warping etc...

Since identifying the problem, the car has been garaged,starts and runs like normal with the exception is that coolant needs to be added so not sure what damage might of been done to the engine.

Any insights you can provide on whether this is a high risk repair would be appreciated.

LIC Motorsports

3/18/2019 02:53:26 pm

Really hard to say not knowing what you will get into once it gets opened up. I will say its uncommon to have head gasket issues on a 6 cyl model and an indicator of a larger issue typically. Which is worrisome in regards with the need to keep adding coolant to the cooling system. I think you have the higher probability of getting into further work - albeit at time of repair or in near future (catalytic converts, etc.)

Joseph

3/18/2019 04:57:03 pm

First mechanic I took it to said I need a new waterpump and suggested the thermostat be changed as well. Interestingly I do not see coolant puddles on the floor of my garage. Second mechanic, that being the local Subaru dealer says leaking water pump, gasket covers and coolant in oil. I ran a block test siphoning suspect combustive gases from the radiator, using blue die and interestingly the die never changed to yellow suggesting no combustive gases. How accurate these tests are is beyond my knowledge. So I am in a quandary as to whether to junk the car or repair the vehicle....

LIC Motorsports

3/19/2019 07:41:01 am

Joseph- it's a tough predicament and understandable on the confusion of the "what should I do". The problem with scenarios like this is the have that unknown factor and added expense if things don't go as hoped. With that being said, the 6 cyl is one of the better motors Subaru made and tend to be a lot more robust then the 4 cyl variants.

Joseph DCruz

3/25/2019 02:22:16 pm

Opted to dispose of the 2006 vehicle as the anticipated mounting repair costs would far exceed the value of the car, just didn't make sense to continue to take risk. It was a great SUV while it lasted.

Happen to own a 2013 Subaru Tribeca as well with about a third of the mileage as the 2006. Plenty of life left in this one with no issues thus far.

LIC Motorsports

3/25/2019 02:58:26 pm

I own a Tribeca (same motor as your Outback) myself, been pretty rock solid for my family and only normal wear/tear items needing attention. Ours currently has 150k on it and I expect it to still go another 100k without too many issues - the 3.6L motor is one of the best motors Subaru made, its a shame its now been discontinued.

Mary Wilson

3/23/2019 06:45:12 pm

Looking at a 2011 Subaru Outback with 164,000 miles. My mechanic says there is an oil leak (head gasket). The head gasket was just replaced last June. Should I run?

LIC Motorsports

3/25/2019 11:56:35 am

I would say it has underlining issues and looking at buying a car like that would financially not make a lot of sense (in my opinion). If it was free or nearly free, might be worth it.

Kirsten

3/27/2019 11:25:45 pm

Hi I’m considering buying a 2011 or 2012 Forester. Both have the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine. Do these have the dreaded head gasket issue? Cars are “low mileage” 50K rebuilt (salvage), had body work done. Good cars? Bad cars? Do you know which year might be better? I really like the Forester but I’m a bit leery because I’ve heard some head gasket stories.

LIC Motorsports

3/28/2019 07:34:35 am

I would steer clear any any 11-13 and honestly 14 non turbo Foresters, as they dont have head gasket issues but they were all part of a class action lawsuit due to massive oil consumption issues. This also extends into other models of this era.

We advise, 2015+ models, as I have yet to see any issues with them.

Here is an article about the engine oil issues on that era you're looking into: https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

Kirsten

3/28/2019 04:27:41 pm

Thank you very much. If you have a few more minutes.....does this also apply to much older foresters? I found a super clean 04 with only 85K miles. Basically I need a 4wd car, I like Foresters & Outbacks, and I don’t want to spend more than 10k so I’m looking at used. Suggestions welcome. Maybe should stop looking at Subaru’s altogether.... hmmm

LIC Motorsports

3/28/2019 04:34:32 pm

Kirsten- the 04 would have the issues as mentioned in this blog post, which is the head gasket issue and at the mileage you can count on it needing them done ASAP (its most likely why someone is selling it right now)

Lee

3/31/2019 01:35:50 pm

2010 Forester leaking oil just turned 40k!

LIC Motorsports

4/1/2019 07:44:53 am

Not shocking to be honest, as its a mileage or time thing - which typically is 80-120k or about 10 years.

Rob M

4/2/2019 01:02:14 pm

I am looking at an '05 Outback wagon with the 2.5L and they are in the process of changing the head gasket seal with a "fel pro gasket". Is this the desirable replacement part or the original faulty one? Also, should I be concerned that they are also replaced(ing) the "engine oil cooler gasket" and "valve cover gasket set"? They are supposed to be a private seller, but at this point I am thinking they are actually a small reseller or automotive shop. It seems they have at least multiple Subaru and possibly other vehicles. Found them through CL. Need to get a cheap vehicle that will last a few years that is a bit bigger and would like to have the gas mileage a Subaru offers over our other possible vehicle selection a Explorer. We drive our second car 50-200 miles per week and even at that few miles it would save us over $500 a year in fuel, but I am a bit concerned about repair costs. I can do some repairs on the Explorer, but far fewer on the Subaru I think. Then again the high rate of failure in the Explorer transmission would render our $3-5k Explorer a giant paper weight more or less. Thanks for any feedback. I have read this post, all the comments, and some other posts and think your site is amazing and am leaning more towards a Subaru than ever just because of the resources you provide.

LIC Motorsports

4/2/2019 02:23:20 pm

Longevity depends so much on how one cared for the car previously and it's current mileage - higher mileage vehicles will always have more maintenance/repair/failures.

I know of Fel-Pro aftermarket gaskets, we have unfortunately only seen them failed when they come through here on other cars. It's not a brand I use here.

I wouldn't think an older gen Subaru would get much better mileage than a Explorer to be honest - for around town driving in an older gen Subaru, you'd be lucky to get 16-18 mpg...if it was mostly freeway, around 22-26 mpg.

Rob M

4/3/2019 03:50:00 am

Thanks for the prompt response. And it sounds like a no go on that Subaru. Saw your comments on the 3.0 earlier in the comment section. I am going to look at an '05 ll bean 3.0 with 141k this weekend. It has been on CL for at least 1 month at around $5k. Am I missing the reason this has been on for so long? The price seems reasonable and I am fairly certain I can get that down at least another $500-800. Any particular issues I should look out for other than the oil leaks you had mentioned in an earlier comment? Thanks again, it is pretty cool that you guys respond to so many people with so many questions. Even the ones that don't bother to read your post or prior comments on the post.

LIC Motorsports

4/3/2019 07:11:41 am

Rob M- As you read, they are good cars, more robust engines and yes at that mileage, its going to have oil leaks (which can be costly). The main thing at that mileage is its maintenance history, especially the transmission fluid changes, as this is right at the mileage the transmission will start having major issues if it was neglected on its maintenance intervals (which is every 30k or 30 months). In addition, the 3.0L engines were required to run at min 91 octane fuel - although most didn't do this, it does leave excess carbon in the engine.

Fuel economy will approx 20% less then its 4 cyl variant. 14-16 around town, 18-20 freeway is typical.

Rob M

4/3/2019 12:25:37 pm

Great info. Thanks. Last question(I think). Would you suggest a 4 cylinder that has been repaired(HG and water pump) and is at 120k miles or a 6 cylinder around the same or a bit higher? Without knowing anymore about maintenance. I can't tell from your comments if you are just being very straight forward or if Subarus may need a bit more upkeep than an average car, but will last longer.

LIC Motorsports

4/3/2019 12:42:23 pm

I would personally go with a 6 cyl do to the fact the engine is more robust - it also helps that it holds 7 qts of oil vs a non turbo older 4 cyl model that only holds 4.5 qts....by nature, even if folks are neglectful to both, the 6 cyl will fare better due to this fact alone.

Lots of folks come from Honda/Toyota and those cars can be abused, run out of oil, no services and just keep chugging along.
Subarus are more upkeep than the average vehicle, if you aren't on top of your maintenance, they break.....maintenance is everything on them!

Rob M

4/4/2019 11:39:45 am

Thanks again. I am going to check out the 6 cylinder on Saturday. I am pretty sure I am going to have it checked out by a local mechanic before I make a final decision. If it all checks out he asking $5k, but I think he will be negotiable since it shows the listing has been up over 30 days on CL. It looks pretty clean inside and out from the photos. I am thinking about starting at the $4-4,200 range and trying to keep it under $4,500 if I do buy it. I know prices vary by region and I am in CT, but is that a good price to shoot for if it is cleared by a mechanic? Would I be better off having it checked by an actual Subaru mechanic or would I be just as well off going with a cheaper independent shop? Again, thanks for taking the time to respond to all my comments.

LIC Motorsports

4/4/2019 12:56:54 pm

Hard to say on pricing - it's dependent on region and condition/records of work done on the vehicle. I think specialty shops are always best for pre-purchase inspections as they can quickly pinpoint issues, etc.

Kevin

4/6/2019 03:44:19 pm

Greetings; May be going to look at a 2010 Legacy with 144K miles.I know the head gasket is the newer design, so unless there's warping, we should be good there right? Anything else to be concerned about or other reasons for oil leaks, should we see evidence of any?

LIC Motorsports

4/8/2019 07:48:58 am

Although the 2010+ Outback's now have a MLS gasket (corrected ones), we have seen and done a ton of Head Gasket jobs due to overheating - reason being is the cooling system seems to be fairly inadequate and the cars run warm often. Over the course of time, this ends up warping heads. We even own a 2012 Outback and had to do head gaskets on it even though it never "over heated" without true temp gauges, you don't know when its been running too hot. Those cars just have a blue light when fluid is cold and red if its "too hot". Its not a great way to keep an eye on things unfortunately.

Kevin C Simcoe

4/8/2019 07:52:00 am

Thanks so much...As I investigated further, I found out that the 2010 Legacy we're interested in has the 3.6 six cylinder. What's your experience with these? Thanks again for you wisdom and willingness to help others with it.

LIC Motorsports

4/8/2019 07:57:02 am

KEVIN C SIMCOE- as mentioned in other posts, the 3.6L is probably the most robust engine Subaru has made. My wife drives one of these and at 150k we've had zero issues....other than front cover oil leaks (which are a total pain to be honest but its just part of higher mileage vehicle stuff). Other than that, no issues...but maintenance is everything. You want to make sure service work has been done, especially on the transmission, as that's the mileage they tend to have issues if someone has neglected servicing.

Kevin C Simcoe

4/8/2019 08:14:13 am

Perfect...thank you and have a blessed day.

LIC Motorsports

4/8/2019 08:15:24 am

As well as to you too...take care!

Rob S

4/16/2019 10:15:43 pm

I previously took a 2008 Legacy I was considering buying to my mechanic and he mentioned the HG issue that has plagued Subarus of that era, which brought me here. I'm now looking at a 2008 Impreza 2.5 i and was curious about your experience with these models, or of any major concerns that are typically associated with them?

LIC Motorsports

4/17/2019 07:11:04 am

As mentioned in the article, the issues notated with the 2008 Legacy will be the same as with the 2008 Impreza

Dennis P.

4/22/2019 06:40:44 am

Being poorish, looking at a 2005 Imprezza Sport wagon with 180,000 miles for 2000 dollars. Wish me luck. Your site has given me some helpful things to look for with the hg issues.Know of any reliable subaru repair shops near Culpeper , Va.?

LIC Motorsports

4/22/2019 08:07:25 am

If you're "poorish" and not wanting to be nickled and dimed, it would be very hard to even contemplate the vehicle you're looking into. It will not only have head gasket issues, its coming on 4 major services - 180k (30k interval), 210k (timing component job), 210k (30k interval), and most likely needing head gaskets again - hence someone selling it. In addition, we typically only see these cars go about 225k ish miles if well maintained, so you're on the tail end of its longevity range but that's also reflective in the price point.

Cameron R

4/24/2019 07:04:20 pm

I am looking at an ‘06 Outback with 95k. HG’s have never been done. Is it safe to assume they need to be done now? How long will they last if repaired with your recommended aftermarket HG? Also, do you recommend anything else be done at the time of the HG repair? Should I make sure the heads are machined?What is the estimated cost for the HG repair?

This blog is amazing!

LIC Motorsports

4/25/2019 09:17:01 am

Guaranteed to have HG related work that will be needed at that mileage, in addition you would due your timing component job at the same time as well. We also always recommend replacement of the radiator at the same time if it hasn't already been replaced, as the last thing you want to have happen is have the radiator break (which they do at between 100-120k and/or about 10-12 ish years) which then causes the car to overheat, which then leads to warped heads, which = head gasket job repair again.

I have never replaced or heard of anyone having to replace our updated/upgraded gaskets we sell, reason being is they can't "go bad" like the ones Subaru sells, as they are a multi layer stainless (MLS) and there is nothing to go bad like the factory gaskets. Only reason for someone to have an issue after install would be from whomever performed the work. You ALWAYS have to resurface cylinder heads once they've been removed.

Cost varies based extent of work done, shop, where in the country you're located,etc.

Cameron R

4/25/2019 02:08:59 pm

Great, thanks for all the information.

All things the same, which would be a better purchase in your eyes. ‘06 Outback 2.5i N/A w/ 95k or ‘09 Outback XT w/ 140k?

Any maintenance to worry about with 140k Turbo ‘09 Outback?

LIC Motorsports

4/25/2019 02:30:07 pm

CAMERON R- Totally two different animals but I would say both are going to need extensive work, as the 09 OBXT will be doing a turbo and motor soon enough...unless someone just recently did those items.

Cameron R

4/25/2019 07:15:59 pm

New motor and turbo? Sounds expensive. More expensive then HG and rad?

Thanks for all the guidance.

LIC Motorsports

4/26/2019 07:45:15 am

Yes, everything about the turbo platform is more expensive.

Aaron H.

4/25/2019 09:24:46 pm

Great Info ‼️
Thank You 🙏🏻
Much Respect

LIC Motorsports

4/26/2019 07:45:57 am

Our pleasure, thanks for finding the article!

LYNND

4/27/2019 07:12:25 pm

My spouse is the original owner of a 2004 Outback.

Three things we did not know about despite taking the car to the dealer for sensor repairs and the like well into the 10 year mark:

1) The car apparently requires a specialty coolant conditioner to get it over the 100K mark (per other articles).
2) The radiator contains plastic that will eventually crack.
3) The head gaskets are prone to failure.

Just four years ago we had all the major seals, belts, radiator fan and water pump replaced. No mention was made of the condition of the head gaskets.

The car began to drip small amounts of oil into the driveway approximately 12 months ago. It was never copious enough to cause the car to go low on oil but about 2-3 months into this oil spotting, we took it to a shop (well reviewed on Yelp) to be inspected. (We were new to the area where we currently live and out of driving range of our usual 15-year mechanic.)

The shop owner ultimately charged $1,000 for a new axel to replace a leaking suspension boot. (One that had been replaced just three years prior by our old mechanic!) He then charged an additional $600 to replace a power steering pump, which he said had bubbling in the fluid.

As for the diagnosis we came in search of, he said the oil was leaking around a "gasket". He said the repair was prohibitive and that as a stopgap he could apply a silicone seal that may have to be redone in another 6-12 months.

My spouse is not car savvy and came away with the interaction with the understanding that the point of the sealant was to reduce the chance the car would lose oil. No mention was made of what was actually at stake – that oil could mix with coolant as the head gaskets were failing. No warning was made that the symptom would be an overheat condition or that it could lead to a breakdown on the side of the road if left as is.

Fast forward 10 months and there were spots of oil again appearing on the driveway. About a month after that, he topped off a low coolant reservoir. Two weeks later, without warning, the car overheated and died at a stop just a few yards away from an auto mechanic.

The car restarted the next morning for purposes of being moved off the side of the road to the shop. The radiator was said to be cracked and the car engine did not pass a chemical leak test. The shop owner was unsure if the head gaskets were to blame but based on the burned oil smell he said the only thing he was willing to do was to install a rebuilt engine for almost $5K. He said he would not warranty a head gasket replacement, valve work and the radiator if we insisted on those repairs.

The shop where the gasket was originally sealed was contacted and remembered performing the "repair" almost 12 months prior. The shop owner said it wasn't worth repairing the car due to cost of the repair relative to the value.

Problem is, we had 170K on it and expected to get 70K more before replacing the car so the funds to go out car shopping just aren't there at the moment. Upon pulling the paperwork for the original "gasket" repair (silicone), I now appreciate that we weren't just dealing with an oil leak but a potential for the coolant to intermix and create engine knock, bearing destruction and severe, inevitable overheating.

Question: Would it be in any way worthwhile to pursue this sham gasket repair in small claims recourse (CA) for the fact that my spouse was not warned that acceptance of this temporary fix could set the stage for irreversible engine failure?

It took a Google search after the fact for us to appreciate, as 15-year owners of the car, that this model year is known for having head gasket failures. None of our mechanics along the line warned that this was in store. We have spent far more over the past five years than the car is worth trying to maintain it (to include A/C repairs, numerous suspension repairs, etc).

Although there was oil spotting on the driveway and the coolant was found to be low two weeks before the failure, the engine was NOT knocking or having performance problems before the overheat situation occurred.

Q: Would we be taking as much of a gamble as the shop owner claims to simply replace the head gasket, radiator and valves and hope there is nothing further wrong? Or should we assume that because the gasket had begun weeping a year prior that the coolant has had too much time to intermix with the oil and/or that the car overheat has created more damage than we can appreciate (even though it started back up without issue the next day)?

In summary, is it time to go shopping for a new car or is this reparable short of entirely rebuilding the engine?

LIC Motorsports

4/29/2019 07:51:25 am

Correct all non turbo Subaru's up until 2008/2009 take a coolant conditioner to get you past the 100k mark.

As far as small claims, I'm not a lawyer and can't speak to that but based on what they did and how long it lasted, seems like the work done did exactly as they suggested it would do - last about 6-12 months. Seems to me this was explained as a bandaid to help you guys along.

If this car was in my shop, I would only offer 1 of 2 things (based on what you've mentioned thus far)...Replacement engine (we use Subaru Reman Short Blocks) with all necessary gaskets, seals, and other components due at the same time - such as timing components, radiator, hoses, fluids, etc. Or to get a new/replacement vehicle.

Higher mileage vehicles will continue to cost you more money vs. new/lower mileage ones. They say on average, higher mileage cars - you can expect to spend approx $2k per year on maintenance/repair. I find this to be fairly spot on, although it's not always consistent year-to-year, when you break it down, its about right ($5k one year, $500 the next, $1k the following, etc.).

Lisa

5/3/2019 10:41:44 am

Hi good article but leaving me confused. You mention the head gasket issues started in 1999 , but I have also read that Subaru started using a new composite on their head gaskets that caused this problem starting in 1997 on some models, but I don't know which models those were.

You also write that Subaru did not revise the head gaskets on their older models , is that a good thing or a bad thing for those older cars you mention? I am specifically interested in the older Subaru Impreza or Subaru Legacy model cars of the 1990s or early 2000s . I want the wagon versions not the crossover Outbacks. The problems I have read to watch out for are bad oil seals and oil leaks.

The 1.8 engines involved in Impreza of the 1990s is non interference and I was also wondering if that makes it stronger and less prone to head gasket issues since I assume it will have less vibration ?

What years and engines are best for the older Subaru Impreza (not the Outback version ) and the older Subaru Legacy ( not the Outback version) ? Thanks

LIC Motorsports

5/3/2019 11:05:52 am

The head gasket issues started with the 2.5L DOHC motors. This started with 95 Legacy, 98 Impreza RS, and 98 Forester...those DOHC motors got a redesign through Subaru and should of been fixed by now but some are still out there for sure. If/when you fix these, only the revised/updated gaskets are available.

In 1999 the 2.5L SOHC motor was introduced and those as well had the same head gasket issues and Subaru never redesigned the gaskets (even to this day, if you go to the dealer for HG repair - they install the same flawed gaskets).

Early 90's vehicles, i.e. 1.8L and 2.2L motors are good but have massive oil leak issues typically.

DAVID FORSLUND

5/16/2019 12:51:58 pm

This saturday I'm going to look at a 2009 Subaru Outback 2.0d that has 170000 miles on it. I haven't seen the 2.0d liter diesel turbo talked about here. Does it have the same problems as all the other engines?

PS. I love this blog! Very helpful and interesting reads!

LIC Motorsports

5/16/2019 12:54:44 pm

Unfortunately I couldn't advise on this, as we don't have those cars over here in the USA - so I have no means of comparing part numbers and/or actual part(s)

DAVID FORSLUND

5/16/2019 12:58:48 pm

Ok! Thank you!

DAVID FORSLUND

5/16/2019 01:07:24 pm

Your comment helped me! I searched for the engine, got the part number and it seems its a MLS HG :)

LIC Motorsports

5/16/2019 01:13:55 pm

DAVID FORSLUND- I would of assumed so and good to hear they are. I just never have heard or hear anything bad about the 2.0d's. I only wish we had them here!

Tami

5/19/2019 09:14:33 pm

Back in November 2017, I was given a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport -- one owner before me -- with 38,000 miles on it. I flew out to New Jersey and drove it back to Michigan. Before I got it, it had been gone over by a mechanic but shortly after I got on the Jersey Turnpike, the Check Engine light came on. It was the O2 sensor. I was told I could still drive it. Last November, I noticed a strong smell like burning sugar and opened the hood to find green coolant pooling up on top of the radiator. There were never any puddles on the ground, it just seemed to happen when I drove it. I got the radiator and thermostat replaced and haven't seen any more leaks but a few months later, the smell is still there, and I went into my oil change station where they checked the oil and said it was fine but the coolant reservoir was dry. I've been keeping coolant in the car and refreshing it whenever it gets low. Still no leaks but still getting that smell. Just the other day, I had them check the oil again and it was okay. But one mechanic said to me it was a cracked head gasket. I watch my thermostat like a hawk but it never gets to halfway up the gauge. The check engine light came back on and AutoZone said it's the O2 sensor again (they said you can drive a while on that before it becomes a problem). I've now got 41,200 miles on the car. I am disabled and I need a car to get around, even if it's just in-town. I was told I could drive it long distances as long as I watch the thermostat and if it starts to overheat, pull over and turn it off and wait 30 minutes before going again. I do not have the money to put into major repairs right now (I've already had to replace tires, which was not cheap). A dealership quoted me around $2400. I'm trying to find a reliable local mechanic who can do it for cheaper. What other advice can you give me to help me extend the car's life until I can get the money together for the repairs? The car is in great shape, otherwise.

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 09:21:37 am

Couldn't say totally what you got going on from a distance like this but the fact you ran low on coolant often has a damaging effect (even if you didn't notice the gauge go into the red), you can be assured to have HG issues in time regardless (either from broken radiator and/or just because of the faulty designed gaskets), as you're experiencing symptoms currently. In addition, its often found that 02 sensors consistently going out is another sign of HG issues, which in turn will take out the catalytic converter(s) as well - which is extremely costly.

$2400 is fairly cheap even considering your location and likely would not be the actual total once completed - that's just for HG replacement starting price and at your mileage you would be due for other items, such as timing components, cylinder head resurfacing, etc. Keep in mind, the dealership will NOT use upgraded gaskets and will result in needing to do the service again at some point.

5/20/2019 08:23:49 am

I'v owned 4 Subs dating back a GL wagon in the 80s, had both my kids in them at one point, and have seen a hundred things happen working on them. I gotta say this guy and this thread - he hits it out of the park as to how those motors perform over time and mileage. Best advice thread I've ever read.

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 09:14:14 am

Appreciate you taking the time to comment!

Josh Golden

5/20/2019 03:21:50 pm

Hi, I am looking at purchasing my first Subaru and have narrowed down to Legacy models from 2010-2012. These model engines seem to be out of range for the head gasket issue and the class action lawsuit. Are there any other serious issues that the Legacy in the 10-12 date range have that I should be worried about or are there other engines that are far more reliable that I should consider? Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 09:12:43 am

Although these cars you've listed have updated/upgraded MLS gaskets - we have been seeing a bunch of these still needing HG repair work, not because of the film, but due to inadequate cooling. We have yet to see any issues with any 2015+ models

Josh Golden

5/21/2019 10:23:44 am

I've seen some info in this thread about the 3.6L engine. Is that a safer bet or does that engine have a trade off that has a different issue that is common and something I would want to avoid.

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 11:29:31 am

JOSH GOLDEN- As mentioned previously on here...I own a Tribeca (3.6L) myself - the 3.6L motor is one of the best motors Subaru made, its a shame its now been discontinued. As far as safer bet, they're a more robust engine and tend to last longer (which I believe has to do with the increased motor oil capacity, 7qts vs 2.5L at 4.5 qts) but they get way worse gas mileage, as you would be lucky if you got 18-20 mpg for mixed use driving and these do require more costly services (again more oil, more spark plugs, etc.) and as with any older car, leaking rubber gaskets and hoses tend to be a more complicated and costly job due to the design/complexity of the engine....one added bonus is no timing belt (its a chain and has no pre-planned service interval).

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