 Non turbo 4 cylinder applications all have head gasket issues, you've heard this before, most of you know this, and yes its a result of a bad/faulty design with the gasket. The factory gaskets have a coating that deteriorates over time (typically between 80-120k miles. That range is dependent on if you've run the SOA mandatory coolant conditioner, which is designed to get you past that 100k mile hump). The symptom of leaking "head gaskets" is oil weeping between the head/block surfaces. This weep over time turns into a significant leak, which then turns into coolant leaking as well, after that symptom you often times will go into overheating, from there its a few mile slippery slope...which then has coolant and oil intermingling together. If you haven't guessed it yet, this is where bearings get trashed, you develop a rod knock and hopefully at this point you've realized its about to be over but recognize before the next critical stage. The sad thing is....it doesn't need to get to this point. If you work with a specialty shop its easy to point out early on when this is happening (at the weeping stage) and proactively fixing it. By doing so, you 1- secure your investment with your vehicle, 2- save yourself the headache of being broken down on the side of the road, and 3- you get to enjoy your car for another X amount of miles b/c you didn't let it catastrophically fail. Did you know when we do head gasket jobs here at LIC Motorsports we don't install the same gaskets that do the same thing? Would you be shocked to know that the dealer and most other independents still install these bad/faulty gaskets to this day when they perform this job (reason being is Subaru hasn't revised the gasket on the older SOHC vehicles). These vehicles all have cylinder head gasket related issues:
You can purchase revised/upgraded gaskets here: Non Turbo Upgraded MLS Head Gaskets More info about our Head Gasket Service here: Maintenance Service Page Here is images of when someone has let it go to far and more or less driven there car into the "ground" (that slurry leaking out is the "milkshake" of coolant/oil that has mixed).
242 Comments
NewOwner
6/13/2018 01:38:54 pm
Just bought 2009 Subaru Outback Special 2.5i with 98k miles for $9,900 in perfect condition. Only thing wrong slight leak from oil pan gasket and will have mechanic repair for $240. Last year previous owner at 83k miles replaced power steering pump, timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, valve cover gaskets, head gaskets at Subaru Dealer. They installed gaskets part#11044AA633 single layered. I found from reading the old blog it is better to use the MLS or FelPro, etc but previous owner didn't request either. Question: How long do I have before the heads leak again? Was the original 83k a good estimate to hope for?
Noah
6/13/2018 02:00:04 pm
Really just depends on how they did the repair work. If they resurfaced the heads and did the job properly (which they don't all do), it'll last that 80-100k ish. If they didn't resurface the cylinder heads and just slapped it together (which is common for dealers to do), you'll be lucky to get 30k out of it.
NewOwner
6/13/2018 02:08:58 pm
Thanks for your quick reply! Would they list resurfacing the heads on the Dealer repair/work order (it's not listed on what they gave me)? Or do I have to call and quiz them on their procedure? Thanks Again!
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
7/19/2019 01:22:12 pm
2011 4-cylinder 2.5l engines have a known issue with the head gasket!
LIC Motorsports
7/22/2019 08:40:00 am
Like you mention, we have seen plenty of issues with HG's on the 2010+ models as well - although this isn't from (like in this article) a faulty designed gasket, we believe its from inadequate cooling.
Steve
9/11/2019 04:35:55 pm
I came to the same conclusion. I'm not buying Subaru anymore. I buy a new car and drive it until it dies. Which brand do you recommend?
sam
9/15/2019 03:41:33 pm
I agree with you.. its sucha major issue and so costly in first world country to fix, even mechanically inclined it takes significant time and resources away from my day to day job not to mention the unpredictable nature of repairing old cars with seized bolts etc.. its simply not worth fixing, very major issue with a car basically becomes junk, i owned and loved subaru for 15 years but done now. 10/22/2019 05:15:22 pm
You are right. My friend has a gas station and i have been seeing late model subaru’s with head gasket problems. I have two 2011 Outbacks. One with 115000, and another one with 54000 miles on it. Time to dump the one with 115000 on it.
Kristin
11/2/2019 02:41:16 pm
I almost bought a 2017 Subaru Outback today with 25,000 miles for $20,000 cash. I decided to think about it until Monday and got online and read all about the head gasket issues and ran across your post. You have helped me decide to PASS on Subaru altogether. Thank you! I’m sorry about your misery tho!
Noah
6/13/2018 03:17:26 pm
NewOwner- yes it would be listed on your repair order/invoice if it was done.
Joy Gritton
11/25/2019 07:49:06 pm
We have a 2011 Forester with 137,000 miles that recently started dying (literally--it cuts out when stopped at lights, etc.). Our mechanic ran diagnostics and replaced spark plugs and coil. It has only gotten worse. We took it to the nearest dealer this week and they charged $100 to tell us that they would need to do a "tear down" at a cost of $1000 to see what was wrong and we would probably be looking at a new engine or head block? We don't think paying much money out on this car at this age and mileage would be wise. But we are getting cold feet about buying a new Forester given this experience (previously we had Hondas that never quit at this level of mileage. We bought the car new and have serviced it according to recommendations. Should we look at returning to Hondas?
LIC Motorsports
11/26/2019 03:04:46 pm
This sounds more like a torque converter having issues but hard to say from afar. Folks whom come from Honda or Toyota's typically get jaded with Subarus real quickly - as they are not as resilient or robust with minimal amount of maintenance and care. CRV or Rav4's are very nice these days ;-)
Joy Gritton
11/26/2019 04:00:04 pm
Thank you for responding so quickly! The dealer has worked with us to get the trade in money up and some other perks (plus the $750 loyalty coupon) so that we are going to spring for a 2020 Forester. We really like the visibility of the Foresters and the interiors seem "roomier" somehow than the CR-V, or at least the layout if more to our liking. The price matched a 2018 touring model of a CR-V we were considering, so it was hard to pass up, although I am still leery of the mechanics of this car. Can you please suggest what types of maintenance you recommend? We want to do whatever we can to ensure the health of this new Subaru. We serviced it according to the recommendations before, but obviously something went wrong!
Josh Isralowitz
7/7/2018 10:06:10 am
2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5i owner with 60k miles here.
LIC Motorsprots
7/9/2018 07:55:56 am
That year/make/model does not have the issues mentioned in this post. Subaru revised the gaskets in 2010 for the outback and legacy's. Although with that being said, we do still see a lot of HG issues on your model car, reason being is the cars tend to run hot, which warp the heads, which leads to HG repair as well....but its not due to a faulty gasket like the older models mentioned in this post.
Ed Smith
9/10/2019 02:43:06 am
So basically Same Song, just a different dance. Is that really considered a solution to the core problem???
Joy
11/29/2019 06:26:33 am
Again, thank you for such a quick and helpful response. We are in unchartered territory now of having a new 2020 Forester. We will follow your advice regarding servicing, and will hope that we get close to the mileage of a Honda out of the car this time around. You are offering such a wonderful service to people with your BLOG discussions--I'm sure there are many out there who, like me, are very appreciative! Equipped with the balanced and sensible guidance you provide, I feel we have a better chance of enjoying our Forester for many years to come!
John
7/7/2018 07:15:48 pm
I believe only the 2.5l engines had this issue. The 2.2l is generally fine. Mine has 270k on it and is only now barely starting to weep oil I think, but not enough to register on the dipstick
LIC Motorsports
7/9/2018 07:57:39 am
correct, as mentioned in this article, its for the SOHC 2.5L vehicles. The 2.2L is the best motor Subaru made and commonly get 300k+ miles. It's a shame they stopped producing these almost 20 years ago.
Cindy
8/10/2018 02:47:24 am
Still searching for my older model beloved Outback...kissed a lot of pigs this past year and been on my share of wild goose chases. Came across an 06 LL Bean 154,000 one owner, never wrecked. Clean
LIC Motorsports
8/10/2018 09:12:59 am
Those are great engines but typically have significant oil leaks at that mileage but that's normal for year/make/model.
Cindy
8/10/2018 10:13:05 am
Too many miles for your liking?
Cindy
8/10/2018 10:19:38 am
Can anything be done to correct this oil leak issue? Is it a big deal or a manageable thing if it's a good car.
LIC Motorsports
8/10/2018 10:22:07 am
Cindy- Its ok mileage for the year/model. Yes it can all be fixed, its just costly on the 6 cyl models but if you get the car for a decent price, well worth it and manageable
Cindy
8/10/2018 12:00:00 pm
It's being checked out now...but has a few places on it I'm not liking.👎
LIC Motorsports
8/10/2018 01:56:36 pm
I think you're likely best to stick with a 6 cyl model, although they have some issues at higher mileage, if well maintained, they outlast the 4 cyl by at min 50%
Cindy
8/11/2018 02:48:18 am
Many, many thanks❤️
Cindy
8/19/2018 10:47:29 am
Just had to let you know how it played out. Doesn't it feel nice to be right when you give advice!!
LIC Motorsports
8/20/2018 07:30:50 am
Always happy to speak honestly and to help ;-) 10/19/2018 11:15:07 am
What are your thoughts on the 2.5L turbo motor, i.e. 2005 Legacy GT.
LIC Motorsports
10/19/2018 11:31:16 am
Turbo models are fine, they do not suffer the same flaw as the NA gaskets - as they are MLS from the factory.
Thomas Schmoller
10/25/2018 04:47:06 am
Does the head gasket problem plague the n/a 2.0L 2011 Impreza's I've not seen anything online about there 2.0l engines, only 2.5/2.2
LIC Motorsports
10/25/2018 08:07:25 am
Although the FA/FB motors do NOT suffer from head gasket issues as mentioned in this article - do know that the 11-13's were part of a class action lawsuit due to massive motor oil consumption issues. https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682
Zach
11/18/2018 07:53:24 pm
Have a 2011 Subaru Outback Prem 2.5 non turbo with 156k miles. Started to overheat the other night for the first time and spewed coolant out of the reservoir. Have had an issue with a leak from the bottom hose previously which threw the code. Got it fixed and it drove perfect for 3 days. No mayo on the stick or filler cap, no mysterious disappearance of coolant, no white smoke, no bubbles in the radiator or reservoir so I’m kind of stumped. Don’t want to go to a Subaru dealer and them say it’s HG but I’m kind of feeling like that’s what’s going to happen. Any advice?
LIC Motorsports
11/19/2018 07:43:17 am
Sounds like the car for sure overheated due lack of coolant in the system - likely from that lower hose connection you mentioned. Which has resulted in warped head(s) - when heads warp, exhaust gases will push the coolant out of the system and out the reservoir bottle....that's a blown head gaskets unfortunately.
Sabry Soliman
1/20/2019 10:57:37 am
I just bought a 2009 Subaru Outback in March 2018, 2 moth after I bought it the dealer confirmed a HG leaking in both sides, I read about the faulty engine and HG design, if I used a cooper racing and performance HG, would this will be better fix to overcome the faulty design?
LIC Motorsports
1/21/2019 09:03:18 am
There is upgraded gaskets now available. I wouldn't use a copper gasket and/or spray, as copper needs to be retorqued once installed and doing that on a Subaru is out of the question.
Cindy
2/9/2019 04:05:08 pm
Hi there...
LIC Motorsports
2/11/2019 08:21:28 am
Hello Cindy, we use Motul 8100 5w30 or 5w40 depending on mileage of the car and climate you're in.
Cindy
2/11/2019 08:36:49 am
145,000 Norfolk Va. East coast
LIC Motorsports
2/11/2019 08:38:36 am
stick with 5w30
james craig ross
11/8/2019 11:26:22 am
What we are not seeing here is the under 'lying' policy that motor vehicles follow...one of in-built redundancy...why make a product that lasts if aftermarket spares are the only ones making money.make a technologically advanced car that will not last but appreciated enough for the suckers to come back. this form of consumerism is across the board and not only in automobiles...fancy and short lived...Subaru probably knew that mls gaskets were better...Like Nissan knew that Cvt was cheaper to make and more likely to fail but could see the profitability in the concept.
Cindy
2/11/2019 08:41:13 am
Since I do not know the history of weather synthetic oil was used, should I start NOW using synthetic oil?
LIC Motorsports
2/11/2019 08:48:26 am
Synthetic should be used in everything these days.
Cindy
2/11/2019 08:51:11 am
You are the Subaru GURU.....Thank you👍❤️
LIC Motorsports
2/11/2019 09:00:25 am
No problem...
Jaysan
3/1/2019 05:51:13 am
Hi, I’m currently shopping for a used Subaru Baja Turbo. If I’ve understood the previous comments correctly, I shouldn’t have to worry about the head gadget issues right? Is there anything I should be looking out for?
LIC Motorsports
3/1/2019 07:46:24 am
Although the turbo models do not suffer from the issues mentioned in this article, it doesn't mean it can't still have head gasket related issues - but it won't be due to the faulty design. As with any turbo model Subaru, you'd want records that someone has been diligently maintaining it.
Joad
3/9/2019 06:09:18 am
Hello,
LIC Motorsports
3/11/2019 10:02:19 am
Sounds like you did the right things and did the job complete - as it should be done. Hard to say ultimately what you got going on from a distance but I would question if you used an OEM/Genuine water pump. I see you listed mostly OEM stuff but did you happen to use an aftermarket water pump? If not, check out this article: https://www.licmotorsports.com/blog/why-we-use-oem-subaru-genuine-water-pumps
Bob
3/11/2019 12:31:05 pm
Hello, I have a 2003 Legacy Outback with 110,500 miles. Seven years ago, at 75,900 miles, I had to replace the cylinder head gasket because of an external oil leak. At that time, the dealer said that the catalyst was "below efficiency" and had to be replaced. Expensive! Now, only 34,600 miles later, it is developing an external oil leak again. My questions are: 1) Was the catalyst failure caused by a leak of the head gasket and contamination of the combustion gases? 2) Since there is evidence of an external leak at the head gasket, is it a certainty that fuel, coolant, and/or oil are mixing internally, too? 3) If I drive short distances (2 miles to work and store, occasionally 50 miles to the airport) how do I tell if I'm wrecking the engine? 4) Is there anything I can do besides replace the head gasket again? Thanks.
LIC Motorsports
3/11/2019 12:43:26 pm
If you had the same gaskets installed (meaning OEM ones), it would be expected within 10 years that they would leak again - as Subaru has never corrected the issue with the gaskets.
Joseph
3/15/2019 06:12:18 pm
HI, I am deliberating on whether to have a head gasket job done on my 2006 Subaru Tribeca with 150,000 miles. The cost is nearly eclipsing the value of the vehicle. My question is whether this is straightforward engine repair or is their a likelihood of additional hidden damage to internal parts, or cracks in the engine block, cylinder warping etc...
LIC Motorsports
3/18/2019 02:53:26 pm
Really hard to say not knowing what you will get into once it gets opened up. I will say its uncommon to have head gasket issues on a 6 cyl model and an indicator of a larger issue typically. Which is worrisome in regards with the need to keep adding coolant to the cooling system. I think you have the higher probability of getting into further work - albeit at time of repair or in near future (catalytic converts, etc.)
Joseph
3/18/2019 04:57:03 pm
First mechanic I took it to said I need a new waterpump and suggested the thermostat be changed as well. Interestingly I do not see coolant puddles on the floor of my garage. Second mechanic, that being the local Subaru dealer says leaking water pump, gasket covers and coolant in oil. I ran a block test siphoning suspect combustive gases from the radiator, using blue die and interestingly the die never changed to yellow suggesting no combustive gases. How accurate these tests are is beyond my knowledge. So I am in a quandary as to whether to junk the car or repair the vehicle....
LIC Motorsports
3/19/2019 07:41:01 am
Joseph- it's a tough predicament and understandable on the confusion of the "what should I do". The problem with scenarios like this is the have that unknown factor and added expense if things don't go as hoped. With that being said, the 6 cyl is one of the better motors Subaru made and tend to be a lot more robust then the 4 cyl variants.
Joseph DCruz
3/25/2019 02:22:16 pm
Opted to dispose of the 2006 vehicle as the anticipated mounting repair costs would far exceed the value of the car, just didn't make sense to continue to take risk. It was a great SUV while it lasted.
LIC Motorsports
3/25/2019 02:58:26 pm
I own a Tribeca (same motor as your Outback) myself, been pretty rock solid for my family and only normal wear/tear items needing attention. Ours currently has 150k on it and I expect it to still go another 100k without too many issues - the 3.6L motor is one of the best motors Subaru made, its a shame its now been discontinued.
Mary Wilson
3/23/2019 06:45:12 pm
Looking at a 2011 Subaru Outback with 164,000 miles. My mechanic says there is an oil leak (head gasket). The head gasket was just replaced last June. Should I run?
LIC Motorsports
3/25/2019 11:56:35 am
I would say it has underlining issues and looking at buying a car like that would financially not make a lot of sense (in my opinion). If it was free or nearly free, might be worth it.
Kirsten
3/27/2019 11:25:45 pm
Hi I’m considering buying a 2011 or 2012 Forester. Both have the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine. Do these have the dreaded head gasket issue? Cars are “low mileage” 50K rebuilt (salvage), had body work done. Good cars? Bad cars? Do you know which year might be better? I really like the Forester but I’m a bit leery because I’ve heard some head gasket stories.
LIC Motorsports
3/28/2019 07:34:35 am
I would steer clear any any 11-13 and honestly 14 non turbo Foresters, as they dont have head gasket issues but they were all part of a class action lawsuit due to massive oil consumption issues. This also extends into other models of this era.
Kirsten
3/28/2019 04:27:41 pm
Thank you very much. If you have a few more minutes.....does this also apply to much older foresters? I found a super clean 04 with only 85K miles. Basically I need a 4wd car, I like Foresters & Outbacks, and I don’t want to spend more than 10k so I’m looking at used. Suggestions welcome. Maybe should stop looking at Subaru’s altogether.... hmmm
LIC Motorsports
3/28/2019 04:34:32 pm
Kirsten- the 04 would have the issues as mentioned in this blog post, which is the head gasket issue and at the mileage you can count on it needing them done ASAP (its most likely why someone is selling it right now)
Lee
3/31/2019 01:35:50 pm
2010 Forester leaking oil just turned 40k!
LIC Motorsports
4/1/2019 07:44:53 am
Not shocking to be honest, as its a mileage or time thing - which typically is 80-120k or about 10 years.
Rob M
4/2/2019 01:02:14 pm
I am looking at an '05 Outback wagon with the 2.5L and they are in the process of changing the head gasket seal with a "fel pro gasket". Is this the desirable replacement part or the original faulty one? Also, should I be concerned that they are also replaced(ing) the "engine oil cooler gasket" and "valve cover gasket set"? They are supposed to be a private seller, but at this point I am thinking they are actually a small reseller or automotive shop. It seems they have at least multiple Subaru and possibly other vehicles. Found them through CL. Need to get a cheap vehicle that will last a few years that is a bit bigger and would like to have the gas mileage a Subaru offers over our other possible vehicle selection a Explorer. We drive our second car 50-200 miles per week and even at that few miles it would save us over $500 a year in fuel, but I am a bit concerned about repair costs. I can do some repairs on the Explorer, but far fewer on the Subaru I think. Then again the high rate of failure in the Explorer transmission would render our $3-5k Explorer a giant paper weight more or less. Thanks for any feedback. I have read this post, all the comments, and some other posts and think your site is amazing and am leaning more towards a Subaru than ever just because of the resources you provide.
LIC Motorsports
4/2/2019 02:23:20 pm
Longevity depends so much on how one cared for the car previously and it's current mileage - higher mileage vehicles will always have more maintenance/repair/failures.
Rob M
4/3/2019 03:50:00 am
Thanks for the prompt response. And it sounds like a no go on that Subaru. Saw your comments on the 3.0 earlier in the comment section. I am going to look at an '05 ll bean 3.0 with 141k this weekend. It has been on CL for at least 1 month at around $5k. Am I missing the reason this has been on for so long? The price seems reasonable and I am fairly certain I can get that down at least another $500-800. Any particular issues I should look out for other than the oil leaks you had mentioned in an earlier comment? Thanks again, it is pretty cool that you guys respond to so many people with so many questions. Even the ones that don't bother to read your post or prior comments on the post.
LIC Motorsports
4/3/2019 07:11:41 am
Rob M- As you read, they are good cars, more robust engines and yes at that mileage, its going to have oil leaks (which can be costly). The main thing at that mileage is its maintenance history, especially the transmission fluid changes, as this is right at the mileage the transmission will start having major issues if it was neglected on its maintenance intervals (which is every 30k or 30 months). In addition, the 3.0L engines were required to run at min 91 octane fuel - although most didn't do this, it does leave excess carbon in the engine.
Rob M
4/3/2019 12:25:37 pm
Great info. Thanks. Last question(I think). Would you suggest a 4 cylinder that has been repaired(HG and water pump) and is at 120k miles or a 6 cylinder around the same or a bit higher? Without knowing anymore about maintenance. I can't tell from your comments if you are just being very straight forward or if Subarus may need a bit more upkeep than an average car, but will last longer.
LIC Motorsports
4/3/2019 12:42:23 pm
I would personally go with a 6 cyl do to the fact the engine is more robust - it also helps that it holds 7 qts of oil vs a non turbo older 4 cyl model that only holds 4.5 qts....by nature, even if folks are neglectful to both, the 6 cyl will fare better due to this fact alone.
Rob M
4/4/2019 11:39:45 am
Thanks again. I am going to check out the 6 cylinder on Saturday. I am pretty sure I am going to have it checked out by a local mechanic before I make a final decision. If it all checks out he asking $5k, but I think he will be negotiable since it shows the listing has been up over 30 days on CL. It looks pretty clean inside and out from the photos. I am thinking about starting at the $4-4,200 range and trying to keep it under $4,500 if I do buy it. I know prices vary by region and I am in CT, but is that a good price to shoot for if it is cleared by a mechanic? Would I be better off having it checked by an actual Subaru mechanic or would I be just as well off going with a cheaper independent shop? Again, thanks for taking the time to respond to all my comments.
LIC Motorsports
4/4/2019 12:56:54 pm
Hard to say on pricing - it's dependent on region and condition/records of work done on the vehicle. I think specialty shops are always best for pre-purchase inspections as they can quickly pinpoint issues, etc.
Kevin
4/6/2019 03:44:19 pm
Greetings; May be going to look at a 2010 Legacy with 144K miles.I know the head gasket is the newer design, so unless there's warping, we should be good there right? Anything else to be concerned about or other reasons for oil leaks, should we see evidence of any?
LIC Motorsports
4/8/2019 07:48:58 am
Although the 2010+ Outback's now have a MLS gasket (corrected ones), we have seen and done a ton of Head Gasket jobs due to overheating - reason being is the cooling system seems to be fairly inadequate and the cars run warm often. Over the course of time, this ends up warping heads. We even own a 2012 Outback and had to do head gaskets on it even though it never "over heated" without true temp gauges, you don't know when its been running too hot. Those cars just have a blue light when fluid is cold and red if its "too hot". Its not a great way to keep an eye on things unfortunately.
Kevin C Simcoe
4/8/2019 07:52:00 am
Thanks so much...As I investigated further, I found out that the 2010 Legacy we're interested in has the 3.6 six cylinder. What's your experience with these? Thanks again for you wisdom and willingness to help others with it.
LIC Motorsports
4/8/2019 07:57:02 am
KEVIN C SIMCOE- as mentioned in other posts, the 3.6L is probably the most robust engine Subaru has made. My wife drives one of these and at 150k we've had zero issues....other than front cover oil leaks (which are a total pain to be honest but its just part of higher mileage vehicle stuff). Other than that, no issues...but maintenance is everything. You want to make sure service work has been done, especially on the transmission, as that's the mileage they tend to have issues if someone has neglected servicing.
Kevin C Simcoe
4/8/2019 08:14:13 am
Perfect...thank you and have a blessed day.
LIC Motorsports
4/8/2019 08:15:24 am
As well as to you too...take care!
David
12/8/2019 12:44:02 am
Your information and opinions are extremely helpful,,...thank you.
LIC Motorsports
12/9/2019 07:58:30 am
Thats actually 100% incorrect. When the CVT's were implemented, they actually increased the interval service - from every 30k miles, to 24,855 (just look in back of your manual) - its also why SOA has increased the drivetrain warranty for the transmission from the standard 5 year / 60k to 10 year / 100k. This is because they were recommending as they are to you, which is to never do it. DO NOT do, no such thing as "lifetime fluid". We recommend every 30k or 3 years for servicing on the transmission/diffs.
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
12/9/2019 08:01:26 am
It's for the "life" - As Scotty Kilmer says "the life of the warranty."
Rob S
4/16/2019 10:15:43 pm
I previously took a 2008 Legacy I was considering buying to my mechanic and he mentioned the HG issue that has plagued Subarus of that era, which brought me here. I'm now looking at a 2008 Impreza 2.5 i and was curious about your experience with these models, or of any major concerns that are typically associated with them?
LIC Motorsports
4/17/2019 07:11:04 am
As mentioned in the article, the issues notated with the 2008 Legacy will be the same as with the 2008 Impreza
Dennis P.
4/22/2019 06:40:44 am
Being poorish, looking at a 2005 Imprezza Sport wagon with 180,000 miles for 2000 dollars. Wish me luck. Your site has given me some helpful things to look for with the hg issues.Know of any reliable subaru repair shops near Culpeper , Va.?
LIC Motorsports
4/22/2019 08:07:25 am
If you're "poorish" and not wanting to be nickled and dimed, it would be very hard to even contemplate the vehicle you're looking into. It will not only have head gasket issues, its coming on 4 major services - 180k (30k interval), 210k (timing component job), 210k (30k interval), and most likely needing head gaskets again - hence someone selling it. In addition, we typically only see these cars go about 225k ish miles if well maintained, so you're on the tail end of its longevity range but that's also reflective in the price point.
Cameron R
4/24/2019 07:04:20 pm
I am looking at an ‘06 Outback with 95k. HG’s have never been done. Is it safe to assume they need to be done now? How long will they last if repaired with your recommended aftermarket HG? Also, do you recommend anything else be done at the time of the HG repair? Should I make sure the heads are machined?What is the estimated cost for the HG repair?
LIC Motorsports
4/25/2019 09:17:01 am
Guaranteed to have HG related work that will be needed at that mileage, in addition you would due your timing component job at the same time as well. We also always recommend replacement of the radiator at the same time if it hasn't already been replaced, as the last thing you want to have happen is have the radiator break (which they do at between 100-120k and/or about 10-12 ish years) which then causes the car to overheat, which then leads to warped heads, which = head gasket job repair again.
Cameron R
4/25/2019 02:08:59 pm
Great, thanks for all the information.
LIC Motorsports
4/25/2019 02:30:07 pm
CAMERON R- Totally two different animals but I would say both are going to need extensive work, as the 09 OBXT will be doing a turbo and motor soon enough...unless someone just recently did those items.
Cameron R
4/25/2019 07:15:59 pm
New motor and turbo? Sounds expensive. More expensive then HG and rad?
LIC Motorsports
4/26/2019 07:45:15 am
Yes, everything about the turbo platform is more expensive.
Aaron H.
4/25/2019 09:24:46 pm
Great Info ‼️
LIC Motorsports
4/26/2019 07:45:57 am
Our pleasure, thanks for finding the article!
LYNND
4/27/2019 07:12:25 pm
My spouse is the original owner of a 2004 Outback.
LIC Motorsports
4/29/2019 07:51:25 am
Correct all non turbo Subaru's up until 2008/2009 take a coolant conditioner to get you past the 100k mark.
Lisa
5/3/2019 10:41:44 am
Hi good article but leaving me confused. You mention the head gasket issues started in 1999 , but I have also read that Subaru started using a new composite on their head gaskets that caused this problem starting in 1997 on some models, but I don't know which models those were.
LIC Motorsports
5/3/2019 11:05:52 am
The head gasket issues started with the 2.5L DOHC motors. This started with 95 Legacy, 98 Impreza RS, and 98 Forester...those DOHC motors got a redesign through Subaru and should of been fixed by now but some are still out there for sure. If/when you fix these, only the revised/updated gaskets are available.
DAVID FORSLUND
5/16/2019 12:51:58 pm
This saturday I'm going to look at a 2009 Subaru Outback 2.0d that has 170000 miles on it. I haven't seen the 2.0d liter diesel turbo talked about here. Does it have the same problems as all the other engines?
LIC Motorsports
5/16/2019 12:54:44 pm
Unfortunately I couldn't advise on this, as we don't have those cars over here in the USA - so I have no means of comparing part numbers and/or actual part(s)
DAVID FORSLUND
5/16/2019 12:58:48 pm
Ok! Thank you!
DAVID FORSLUND
5/16/2019 01:07:24 pm
Your comment helped me! I searched for the engine, got the part number and it seems its a MLS HG :)
LIC Motorsports
5/16/2019 01:13:55 pm
DAVID FORSLUND- I would of assumed so and good to hear they are. I just never have heard or hear anything bad about the 2.0d's. I only wish we had them here!
Tami
5/19/2019 09:14:33 pm
Back in November 2017, I was given a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport -- one owner before me -- with 38,000 miles on it. I flew out to New Jersey and drove it back to Michigan. Before I got it, it had been gone over by a mechanic but shortly after I got on the Jersey Turnpike, the Check Engine light came on. It was the O2 sensor. I was told I could still drive it. Last November, I noticed a strong smell like burning sugar and opened the hood to find green coolant pooling up on top of the radiator. There were never any puddles on the ground, it just seemed to happen when I drove it. I got the radiator and thermostat replaced and haven't seen any more leaks but a few months later, the smell is still there, and I went into my oil change station where they checked the oil and said it was fine but the coolant reservoir was dry. I've been keeping coolant in the car and refreshing it whenever it gets low. Still no leaks but still getting that smell. Just the other day, I had them check the oil again and it was okay. But one mechanic said to me it was a cracked head gasket. I watch my thermostat like a hawk but it never gets to halfway up the gauge. The check engine light came back on and AutoZone said it's the O2 sensor again (they said you can drive a while on that before it becomes a problem). I've now got 41,200 miles on the car. I am disabled and I need a car to get around, even if it's just in-town. I was told I could drive it long distances as long as I watch the thermostat and if it starts to overheat, pull over and turn it off and wait 30 minutes before going again. I do not have the money to put into major repairs right now (I've already had to replace tires, which was not cheap). A dealership quoted me around $2400. I'm trying to find a reliable local mechanic who can do it for cheaper. What other advice can you give me to help me extend the car's life until I can get the money together for the repairs? The car is in great shape, otherwise.
LIC Motorsports
5/21/2019 09:21:37 am
Couldn't say totally what you got going on from a distance like this but the fact you ran low on coolant often has a damaging effect (even if you didn't notice the gauge go into the red), you can be assured to have HG issues in time regardless (either from broken radiator and/or just because of the faulty designed gaskets), as you're experiencing symptoms currently. In addition, its often found that 02 sensors consistently going out is another sign of HG issues, which in turn will take out the catalytic converter(s) as well - which is extremely costly.
gs
5/20/2019 08:23:49 am
I'v owned 4 Subs dating back a GL wagon in the 80s, had both my kids in them at one point, and have seen a hundred things happen working on them. I gotta say this guy and this thread - he hits it out of the park as to how those motors perform over time and mileage. Best advice thread I've ever read.
LIC Motorsports
5/21/2019 09:14:14 am
Appreciate you taking the time to comment!
Josh Golden
5/20/2019 03:21:50 pm
Hi, I am looking at purchasing my first Subaru and have narrowed down to Legacy models from 2010-2012. These model engines seem to be out of range for the head gasket issue and the class action lawsuit. Are there any other serious issues that the Legacy in the 10-12 date range have that I should be worried about or are there other engines that are far more reliable that I should consider? Thanks.
LIC Motorsports
5/21/2019 09:12:43 am
Although these cars you've listed have updated/upgraded MLS gaskets - we have been seeing a bunch of these still needing HG repair work, not because of the film, but due to inadequate cooling. We have yet to see any issues with any 2015+ models
Josh Golden
5/21/2019 10:23:44 am
I've seen some info in this thread about the 3.6L engine. Is that a safer bet or does that engine have a trade off that has a different issue that is common and something I would want to avoid.
LIC Motorsports
5/21/2019 11:29:31 am
JOSH GOLDEN- As mentioned previously on here...I own a Tribeca (3.6L) myself - the 3.6L motor is one of the best motors Subaru made, its a shame its now been discontinued. As far as safer bet, they're a more robust engine and tend to last longer (which I believe has to do with the increased motor oil capacity, 7qts vs 2.5L at 4.5 qts) but they get way worse gas mileage, as you would be lucky if you got 18-20 mpg for mixed use driving and these do require more costly services (again more oil, more spark plugs, etc.) and as with any older car, leaking rubber gaskets and hoses tend to be a more complicated and costly job due to the design/complexity of the engine....one added bonus is no timing belt (its a chain and has no pre-planned service interval).
Josh
5/30/2019 03:50:14 pm
I'm still on the hunt and I recently have read a little bit about the ghost walking issue with 05-09 Outbacks. Have you had any experience with this issue or heard of it. If so, I would like to know how common or cautious I should be about this issue. Thanks.
LIC Motorsports
5/30/2019 03:53:29 pm
Never had anyone complain of this, let alone ever experienced this personally in the snow.
Josh
6/5/2019 05:05:08 pm
You have been a wealth of information. So I have some more for you. I've been looking at an 08 Legacy. Non Turbo. It has the head gaskets and timing belt done and I am wondering if there is anything to watch out for. Also it's a manual. It has 160K on it and the clutch has been replaced once already. The owner says this one is about 70%. Do the clutches in these models tend to go out very often and if so what kind of cost am I looking at? Also wondering if you have heard of the site CarComplaints? I've been doing a lot of research on there and wondering how much stock I should put into them? They information says that based off of cost of problems and when they tend to happen, the 09 Legacy is the worst. This kind of stopped me from looking into the 09's any further. Again, thanks for all your info. You have been a great help for a newbie of the Subie.
LIC Motorsports
6/6/2019 08:17:43 am
160k is getting up into the high mileage range for a Subaru.
Randy
6/10/2019 07:05:50 pm
Purchased a 2009 legacy 2.5i special edition in July 2018 with 127,000. Now has 133,000 miles on it. Head gasket has never been done but there is some weeping. How long do I have before it MUST be replaced and about how much will this cost? Trying to determine if it's worth getting done.
LIC Motorsports
6/11/2019 04:15:23 pm
By the time you have the weep, its time to fix it. Pricing really depends on where you're located and parts used and how thorough of a job the shop does. I talk to folks all over the country and to do this job properly with all proper gaskets, seals, fluids, and machine shop work - runs at min $2500-$3k for the HG service.
Cara
6/12/2019 08:46:11 pm
I am looking at a 2011 subaru impreza and a 2013, december impreza...car fax says 2014 but vehicle sold in dec 2013. I formerly owned a forester but it didn't last because of a car fire. Wanting to know what are some of the cons with these two cars? It seems what ive been reading is head gaskets replaced at around 100,000 miles. The 2011 has 95,800 miles and 2013 at 91,850 miles.
LIC Motorsports
6/13/2019 07:59:03 am
I wouldn't recommend either to be honest, as the 2011 you're aware of issues based on this article.
Cara
6/13/2019 08:22:12 am
Ok, thanks. Does the motor oil consumption mean that there have been many leaks due to this problem? What are the FA/FB motors? Can you please explain further? Thanks.
LIC Motorsports
6/13/2019 08:28:43 am
CARA- the older cars with head gasket issues as mentioned in this article are EJ motors (its the type of motor), the new generation is either and FA or FB depending on model. I was mentioning that the older 2011 your were interested, which is the older EJ motor with head gasket issues like mentioned in this article. The newer generation FA/FB also have issues, which is why I provided that link to give you insight into those issues they have.
Matt
6/15/2019 04:06:16 pm
Just bought a 2011 Outback with about 140K miles.
LIC Motorsports
6/17/2019 08:08:24 am
I would recommend getting it checked out and having the cooling system tested...you're explaining classic overheating symptoms = head gasket repair will be necessary.
Seth
6/20/2019 11:32:34 am
My dad just gave me his old 06 Outback LL Bean Edition. It's pretty high mileage (276k) but still runs and drives fantastic! However, I've started noticing oil spots wherever I park, and I've been going through about a quart of oil a month replacing lost oil. From what I've read on here, it seems that it's most likely either from the oil pan gasket or oil cooler gasket. These are both mostly simple repairs I could do at home, but my question is this: Are either of these places more likely to be the culprit than the other, or would I be better off replacing both?
LIC Motorsports
6/20/2019 06:07:29 pm
Even if the valve cover gaskets are leaking, its not responsible for the 1 qt per month of oil. That's a ton of oil and its most certainly coming from internally in the motor (consuming it). I would recommend checking its rate of consumption, i.e. how many miles it goes before you need to add that quart. Normal is 1 qt per 3k miles. 1 qt of motor oil leaking out to the floor would cover approx a 10 ft circumference on the ground. You'd notice this amount of oil and the reason you don't is because its being consumed by the engine. I would do a compression/leakdown test before you spend a bunch of money on the car and track the amount of consumption, if its abnormal - hard to justify spending a ton of money on a car with a big underlining issue(s).
Lauren
6/29/2019 07:23:31 pm
Hi there my husband is very interested in buying a used Forester. The one he is looking at is a 2005 XT with 121,000 miles. They want 5250. Thoughts? From what I understand the turbo doesn't have the faulty HG issue but what other issues would I need to be concerned about around this mileage? What could I expect to spend in repairs and maintenance in the next few years?
LIC Motorsports
7/1/2019 07:33:45 am
Correct the turbo models don't have faulty gasket design but that doesn't mean you couldn't end up with a head gasket issue. At higher mileage like this, the typical items are always in play for future repairs: gaskets/seals, wheel bearings, suspension, and depending on how it has been taken care of and maintained the turbo and motor. They say on average higher mileage vehicles will cost the average person approx $2k in repairs yearly - now that may be a $4k job now and its good for a year or two, or it can nickel and dime you constantly. Just varies but I see the 100k+ miles cars hold true to this figure
Seamus
7/4/2019 05:23:25 pm
I'm currently considering 3 options:
LIC Motorsports
7/8/2019 07:23:25 am
The 05 Forester XS sounds the best in this scenario.
Greg
7/5/2019 08:16:07 pm
I am looking at 2006 Subaru Forester. It has 70k on it and it has no oil on the dipstick and it is leaking from underneath. Did not see any coolant in the reservoir and unsure if conditioner was used in coolant. Would this be a sign of head gasket failure?
LIC Motorsports
7/8/2019 07:26:02 am
With what you're explaining, I'd run away from this car. It showing no oil means its at min 1.5 qts low on motor oil - which is at min 30% of the motor oil missing, this damages engines if driven like this and it's likely its even lower than that and was driven like that.
Tom
7/16/2019 05:59:47 am
Hi, I have a question about a coolant used in Subarus. I have a 2003 Forester and I'd like to flush the system and replace the coolant.I really want to go with the genuine Subaru coolant. I see two types, Blue Super coolant and green Long life coolant. Which one of these should be used on 2003 Non turbo Forester?
LIC Motorsports
7/16/2019 08:18:05 am
Your car would take the Long Life (green)
Tom
7/18/2019 11:34:45 am
Thank you!
Todd
7/16/2019 07:08:29 pm
Hi
LIC Motorsports
7/17/2019 10:10:22 am
If the HG work has been done and is not leaking and seems like a good car that has been checked out by a professional - wouldn't seem like a car to shy away from. 120k although onto its later portion of motor life/health is still low enough to contemplate at the right price. You will want to check between the block and heads to see if the HG's have been replaced and for any leaks.
Todd
7/17/2019 01:35:54 pm
Thanks for the reply. The guy got back to me and can’t come up with any paperwork to show if the head gasket or timing belt was in fact done. He did offer to have his mechanic look at it with me there up on a hoist however. Is there an easily verifiable way to check if the head gasket has been done and what to look for? And is there anything else to look at on this particular model to look out for while it’s up on the hoist? Or should just steer clear which I’m suspecting I should....
LIC Motorsports
7/17/2019 01:40:54 pm
TODD- without paperwork, depending on how long it was done (assuming it was), could be challenging to see what is newer and what isn't. The car is a the perfect mileage we see folks sell them due to timing and HG work needed - so being skeptical makes sense if you ask me. In regards to other things to look for, just your typical wear/tear items: bushings, suspension components, brakes, tires, any other seepage such as transmission, etc.
Todd
7/17/2019 06:14:34 pm
Thanks for your reply. So basically there is t really a viable not too expensive way for a mechanic to tell me if the head gasket has been done, is this correct? If not I’m steering clear that’s not a risk anyone should take knowing the HG issue.....the cost of that is more than the cars worth
LIC Motorsports
7/18/2019 11:31:42 am
This is the issue with these year range cars and just because someone did the HG if they used the OEM ones, it will have the same again. Even some aftermarket "corrected gaskets" don't work good.
Tom
7/18/2019 11:46:23 am
Hi, would you be able to tell me what the code P0032 - Powertrain means? I have check engine light on and this pending code pulled. Underneath that there is HO2S Heater Control Circuit High (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
LIC Motorsports
7/23/2019 08:51:37 am
P0032 code is a bad front air/fuel sensor. Based on your symptoms, sounds like you're having end stage HG issues.
Tom
7/23/2019 09:03:47 am
Thank you for the answer. That really sucks because so far there was really not much indicating it.The temperature never increased, the engine ran smooth. Occasionally I had to add some coolant.
Stephanie
8/7/2019 07:54:54 pm
Hello! I am wondering what kind of timeframe to expect head gasket issues to begin to present themselves. I am looking at a 2006 impreza, non turbo, with 142,000km on it. It has had the typical things looked it and the gaskets are not showing any symptoms now. I am wondering what the likelihood of this coming up I. The next 100,000km if maintenance is kept up with and the car is driven appropriately. Temp here is up to 30c in summer to - 25 or so in winter...
LIC Motorsports
8/8/2019 09:17:38 am
I would say its guaranteed that this will have the typical head gasket related issues based on its mileage. I will also note that cars that reside in those type of conditions you're explaining typically take longer to show the outwardly first signs of leakage - and so many folks miss interpret that as its "not an issue on my car".,,which tends to result in catastrophic failure.
Lauren
8/8/2019 01:32:19 pm
Hello there! I have a 2007 Subaru Outback and this week the red oil pressure light fluttered on with the check engine light coming on. I added oil bc it was low when I checked and was able to drive it home. Today it stalled out at a stop sign and wouldn't start again. My garage tells me the engine is done for. I called a Subaru garage and they are suggesting replacing the engine. My car has 153, 000 miles on it, is this a wise choice for my car or should I consider finding something else? Last year I replaced the catalytic converter and had new tires put on it, I'd hate to waste the investment I already have put in it. Thanks for any advice you can give me.
LIC Motorsports
8/9/2019 10:36:57 am
I see no reason as to why your mechanic would be wrong in regards to the engine. Without it in front of me, of course I couldn't say for certain but its a safe bet you've damaged it beyond repair and needs replacement. Anytime the oil pressure light turns on, it means its under 3 psi - which is catastrophic.
Kris
8/9/2019 10:45:44 am
Just purchased an '04 Impreza 2.5i with 86k miles and discovered the head gasket needs to be replaced. We paid $4k for the car and believe we can have the repair done for $1,500-$1,600.
LIC Motorsports
8/10/2019 04:04:26 pm
I have yet to see anyone perform this repair for the dollar amount, as at that time you will also need new timing components (done complete with water pump, tensioner, idlers, etc.)...in addition, be sure to have new valve seals installed when you have the cylinder heads resurfaced (also a must when doing this job). The average price I see this job done for across the country is double the number you're suggesting.
Kris Ahlstrom
8/11/2019 11:35:49 am
Thanks, I appreciate you candor and expertise. It sounds like this car needs to find a new home.
B Perry
8/12/2019 06:33:00 pm
We're looking at a 2018 Subaru Forester with about 20,500 miles on it. It was a lease vehicle in NC. Looking it over my husband checked the tailpipe among other things and it had black, slightly oily residue in it but the exhaust had no color when we revved the engine. Otherwise it seems in good shape and is still under warranty for another 39,490 miles for the drivetrain and 15,490 miles on the basic warranty. We have not had our mechanic check it over yet. Should we be concerned? Could it be burning oil? Will the warranty transfer to us and cover possible problems?
LIC Motorsports
8/13/2019 07:36:17 am
The newer models tend to burn more oil, we see this constantly - in fact, if you look at the "owners manual", they now claim 1qt of oil per 1,200 miles is "normal and acceptable". Which is complete nonsense. On the older generation models, it was 1qt per 3,750 miles. It crazy and its troubling if you ask me. The issue is they are extending oil maintenance drain intervals and now using 0w20 motor oil (which is super thin oil, which tends to breakdown sooner and burn quicker). Yes the warranty transfers over, assuming you are talking about manufacture warranty of 3/36 motor and 5/60 drivetrain. But if the car is in the parameters of that crazy 1qt and over 1,200 miles, they won't do anything for you as its "within spec".
B Perry
8/15/2019 06:04:56 pm
Thanks for your reply. I have seen on Consumer Reports that some of the recent Foresters burn oil but many of them don't. I think we'll keep looking and also check the tailpipe of anything that looks good otherwise. I am assuming that you don't see the head gasket issues with 2016+ because they don't have the higher miles on them yet. I'm paying attention to your advice about transmission fluid too and coolant. A lot to pay attention to after my old Honda Fit!
Kyle
8/18/2019 05:07:00 am
I have a 4 cyl, 2011 Outback, 100k miles. Going through the process of replacing the HG on it now. After reading many of your responses, it appears you have alluded to the fact the overheating problems with post-2009 models is not with the head gasket design but caused by an overall poor cooling system. Are there any measures I can take to help improve the cooling system in order to mitigate the risk of this happening again?
LIC Motorsports
8/19/2019 09:03:15 am
Nothing available that I'm aware and as mentioned, we have done many 2010-2012 Outback HG's already - convinced its a lack of proper cooling. Just as of recently, we're now seeing issues on the 2018+ turbo model cars not being able to stay cool enough as well.
Kyle
8/19/2019 02:44:14 pm
With nothing then to really solve the root problem of a poor cooling system, then are many of these fixed HG vehicles just ticking time bombs to have it happen again? How often do you see ones with replaced HG's come back?
LIC Motorsports
8/19/2019 02:50:31 pm
KYLE - we've only seen the 10-12's be problematic in the last year or so, we really don't have enough run time to see how long they'll last. But I would assume they will have issues again, as nothing has been corrected to stop the issue at hand
Kyle
8/19/2019 02:58:49 pm
Thats good to know. Thank you so much for all your help! I really appreciate it.
LIC Motorsports
8/19/2019 03:00:04 pm
you bet!
Stan Wolken
8/24/2019 04:21:53 pm
I purchased a 2019 Subaru Crosstrack AWD -what are any weaknesses I should watch for? Do the headgaskets have a weakness? Thanks
LIC Motorsports
8/26/2019 08:13:27 am
They're too new to know if anything exists but with that being said, from what we have see, the 15+ models have all been decent. Just make sure you're on top of your servicing.
B Perry
8/26/2019 02:35:32 pm
OK, now we've found a 2017 Forester with less than 11,000 miles, leased, one owner, from PA, clean CARFAX, slight black dry residue in tailpipe, Certified Pre-Owned so we'd get 100,000 mile warranty on powertrain from Subaru. Would get mechanic to check it out. How do you tell if it is burning oil besides checking the tailpipe? Any other questions we should ask?
LIC Motorsports
8/27/2019 10:14:45 am
haven't seen any issues with the 15+ Forester's and being it was leased, it's likely only had 1 oil change, which is kind of a bummer.
RainierGal
8/30/2019 06:53:59 am
Learned lots from this blog thread. I have a 2009 Forester (bought new) with 75,000 miles on it and at my last 'free' multipoint inspection the dealer service shop told me I had leaking oil and the only solution was to pull the engine and replace all of the seals and it was a $1,500 job estimate. I do have oil leaking, not quickly, but the droplets on the garage floor are the proof. I have read that Subaru extended the warranty on some models to 80,000 miles because of the head gasket issue. Is that true? They sure didn't mention it. Am I a candidate for that and if so, how do I find out? I understand that the dealer repair job is unlikely to really resolve the problem and would just be a bandaid likely using the same faulty materials.
LIC Motorsports
8/30/2019 07:37:52 am
This dollar figure they mention, likley does NOT include the head gasket work - as I have yet to find anyone in the country to be able to do it that cheap - and if they are, they're not doing it properly. And yes, if it did include HG's, it would be the same design flawed ones that are in it currently.
RainierGal
8/30/2019 07:50:57 am
Thanks for quick response and even more education. Car has been pretty reliable so far but I sense an impending money pit and have never been thrilled with the road performance of the smaller engine. I just replaced the right front axle/boot, I know I have oil slowly leaking, the A/C randomly stops blowing cold air and instead just blows uncooled air but randomly works just fine the next day, I am probably due for some new spark plugs and a big servicing in the near future. May be time to go shopping...?
LIC Motorsports
8/30/2019 08:18:26 am
RAINIERGAL- Major servicing is every 30/30 (thats 30k miles or 30 months), then timing component job is 105/105 (every 105k miles and/or 105 months). You should of already had these services done, if not, you would need to include all this at time of motor being out...which will basically just cost you the cost of parts and a touch extra labor but timing job labor is free when doing the HG repair, as those parts (old ones) have to come off regardless to perform the work, you'd just have the added cost of the parts for that particular service.
LIC Motorsports
9/11/2019 05:19:34 pm
STEVE- hard to say, I'm someone who drives older cars myself and not someone whom ever has something brand new. From what I have seen, thus far but not enough run time I think has been put on them for long term, is the 2015+ models are doing much better these days...again, if issues are going to arise, its still like a couple years off before we see it. Issues I have notated so far is leaking CVT transmission cases and CVT internal issues.
B Perry
9/16/2019 09:47:36 am
Still wanting to find a used Subaru Forester that does not have issues. If we find one in which the tailpipe only has a small amount of dry ashy grey residue, is that any reassurance that it is not burning oil? Do you know what percentage of newer Subarus have oil consumption problems, esp. 2016 and 2018 base model or Premium?
LIC Motorsports
9/16/2019 09:52:09 am
Unfortunately looking at the tailpipe won't give you an indicator as to what car is or isn't good. Best thing to do is have it checked out by a mechanic well versed in Subarus. Oil consumption is sporadic but we see less issues on the 15+ models. Keep in mind that the 15+ models aren't high mileage as of yet and as such, we don't 100% know long term how these models will weather with time.
Ray
9/26/2019 08:54:49 am
What your opinion of a 2012 Outback 3.6R, with the 5EAT. Bought as a CPO with 30k on the odometer in 2014, coming up on 8 years old (orig in service Dec 2011) with 66k on the clock. - I probably over-maintain, oil/filter 6mo, which translates into 3000 mile intervals, drain/filled diffs twice since owned, as well as the trans when bought and again earlier this year. New pads/rotors, tires 2 years ago. - There is now some seepage at the front of the pan or more likely the cooler, that's spread down, but very minor. (Plan on a new gasket at the next oil change).
LIC Motorsports
9/26/2019 08:59:28 am
Over the course of the next 30-60k miles, you can expect: valve cover and timing cover leakage, more oil consumption as the motor wears, and suspension bits (shocks, struts, tophats) that will need to be addressed.
Patrick Benson
10/1/2019 06:42:13 am
I’ve been looking at a 2011 Impreza Outback Sport with 75k miles. It has the 2.5 liter engine and has been well maintained. Is this model susceptible to HG problems as well? Also looking at a 2014 Crosstrek as well.
LIC Motorsports
10/1/2019 08:08:10 am
as mentioned above, yes the 2011 is affected by the faulty head gasket design issues. The 2014 Crosstrek doesn't have this issue as that is the newer motor design. Although the FA/FB motors do NOT suffer from head gasket issues as mentioned in this article - do know that the 11-13's were part of a class action lawsuit due to massive motor oil consumption issues. https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
10/1/2019 08:16:17 am
In addition to my head gasket problem, which has gotten exponentially worse after a Subaru dealership did my timing/drive belts at 94k. The CVT is garbage. Think Nissan/Jatco bad.
LIC Motorsports
10/1/2019 08:20:17 am
Ironically I just had a 2013 Legacy in here yesterday with a bad CVT.
Alex
10/3/2019 08:41:16 pm
We have a 2012 Outback 2.5i Limited with 88,000 miles on it that overheated on a road trip last week. Mechanic replaced thermostat, water pump, timing belt and hoses to the tune of $1800. We continued on our trip. 4 hours down the highway the car overheated again.Towed it into another repair shop and we are told the HG needs to be replaced (quoted $2500-2600), and that after he gets in, he may find the cylinder heads cracked, and if that's the case, it'd total about $5000 to repair (or possibly replace the engine). The first mechanic refunded the $1800 we paid him. We had to leave the car about 6 hours away at the repair shop and are trying to decide what the best course of action is. Do we drive all the way back and try to get it to a dealership to sell there in its current condition? Are they likely to pay enough to warrant our driving back up there, even with a busted head gasket and maybe needing a full engine replacement? The car is otherwise in good condition, with newish good tires. What do you suggest?
LIC Motorsports
10/4/2019 08:36:46 am
Once a Subaru has overheated, doing the t-stat, water pump, and timing won't correct the issue - as the cylinder heads will be warped. Your typical head gasket repair job starts at $2500-$3k and goes up from that.
Alex
10/4/2019 09:39:59 am
Thanks for the helpful info. We'll see what a dealership offers us for the car and then decide if we're better off to repair it ourselves, or to sell/trade. Otherwise being in good condition, how much is fair to deduct from the trade-in value for this car for this problem?
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
10/4/2019 08:52:05 am
My first instinct would be to factor in the torque converter/CVT problems too.
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
10/4/2019 09:06:45 am
I wanted to make a separate post about this...
LIC Motorsports
10/4/2019 09:48:35 am
ALEX- it varies by dealership and location
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
10/4/2019 10:17:22 am
What I would recommend, contact Subaru corporate first. The dealership is a different thing altogether. What you need is to press corporate, they have the authority to throw money around. The local dealership is not going to give you anything for free or at a big discount. That is not their job, it is the responsibility of the manufacturer, Subaru of America in Camden, New Jersey.
Greg Gold
10/6/2019 03:56:33 am
After 140k miles, my 2012 2.5 Outback overheated and required about $4,500 in repairs. Warped heads, but no damage to the rest of the engine. I've kept up on all maintenance, but the potential transmission issue has me wondering have I reached the end of the line in terms of cost\value for future maintenance costs? The next big maintenance issue will suck all the value of the car, so am I better off getting something new at this point? Thanks for any information.
LIC Motorsports
10/7/2019 08:44:21 am
Definitely have validity to your statement and yes, another large bill will negate the value of what it can resale for...but on the flip side of things - it's still likely cheaper then selling it and buying a used "unknown vehicle" and the problems that can come with that. If you were wanting to swap out for a new car, then yes, the move makes sense as higher mileage cars will always be cost intrusive vs. a new car. 10/15/2019 07:54:11 pm
Considering my first Subaru, a 2017 6-cylinder Outback. Much of what I read here scared the heck out of me, whether it’s the head gasket issue or the CVT. Are these vehicles still worth it? If not, which are? Thank you.
LIC Motorsports
10/16/2019 07:54:00 am
They have a fair amount of issues but of the Subaru line up, they are the most robust engines (if properly taken care of) of them all...do know, the 6 cyl is no longer made, which when Subaru phases out an application in due time parts won't be available for it.
TIREDOFSUBARULIESANDDECEIT
10/16/2019 08:08:18 am
I have discovered that Rav4s have had a traditional 6-speed 4-cylinder automatic transmission up until 2018 and an AWD model appears to be available.
Giuliano Freeo
10/19/2019 08:33:14 am
Hey! Thanks so much for all this wonderful information. Do the 2010-13 Subaru Outbacks equipped with a manual transmission do any better job at keeping the engine cool? I like the vehicles, but obviously not into the major sudden repairs that are associated with the engines running consistently hot. Have my eye on a couple 3.6L's as well since they dont have the same issue, but their mileage isnt great. Although it is always worth it if youre going to get such an increase in durability. Thanks in advance!
LIC Motorsports
10/21/2019 08:00:30 am
The MT vs. AT has no bearing on how cool it keeps the engine unfortunately. Do know that the 2010-2014 models have the old transmission that have torque converter issues (Typically isolated to 2010-2012), the 3.6L's didnt get the CVT until 2015 model year...we really don't see a lot of issues with the 3.6L's, just as they get higher mileage, they tend to have a lot of oil leaks and lots of oil consumption. But if well taken care of, no reason not to get 200-250k fairly trouble free miles.
Giuliano Freeo
11/2/2019 03:39:46 pm
Thanks for the reply.. I went and looked at a 2011 Outback 2.5i MT with 110k on it.. It has been meticulously looked after with service records to prove, and also had the timing belt done along with new tires. He wants 7k for it, down from 7,500.. It is a great car, but after reading this forum, i get a lot of anxiety buying it for fear of this overheating issue happening to me. Is there any thing to say that a well taken care of outback will have a less of a chance of this happening? Is it preventable with great care or are is this unavoidable. Ive done extensive google searching and I just cant find this issue described as meticulously as it is here. I guess im just wondering, what percentage of these vehicles does this happen to? If it was 10% then i think this car is worth it as he has done everything to take care of it.. But if thats closer to 30-50% percent then obviously not working.. Spending money on a new car is stressful! Thanks so much!
Jorge
10/21/2019 10:38:48 am
Hi!
LIC Motorsports
10/21/2019 10:51:00 am
I'm unaware of any USDM 2010 Forester with a 2.0L, as they are all 2.5L (non turbo or turbo). The 2.0L Forester XT's (turbo model) came out in 2014.
Jorge
10/21/2019 02:25:40 pm
OK. Thank you. In Latin America you can find non turbo 2.0 Foresters, At least the ones we get here in Colombia come from the Japan factory. Anyhow, have you found any frequent head gasket problems in any US made 2.0 engine from Subaru?
LIC Motorsports
10/21/2019 02:28:33 pm
JORGE- correct, those would be JDM models in your country. I have not seen any issues with 2.0L's (over here they have always been turbo models anyways).
Dude
10/27/2019 01:54:36 pm
Hi, what about forester 2.0 n/a 158hp dohc (2006-2008)?
LIC Motorsports
10/29/2019 03:48:54 pm
Honestly we don't have the JDM models here, couldn't speak about them with knowledge
Bob
10/29/2019 07:07:57 pm
Just drove a 2006 Forester with 67k miles on it.
LIC Motorsports
10/30/2019 07:56:27 am
I would suspect this vehicle, if it isn't already showing signs of head gasket issues, will suffer from it soon enough. Its right at the right time and age for that major repair...hard to say if its a "good deal" or not, even though its low mileage, it doesn't negate the negative issues that come with age and/or mileage of Subarus as they age (or any car for that matter). So yes, I do believe in short order, you will be due for repairs that will cost you the amount you'd potentially pay for the purchase of the car - this I can guarantee.
Bob
10/30/2019 08:30:04 am
With that said, would you recommend me paying the $130 for a Subaru dealer to do a pre-sale inspection and then negotiating a potential new price with the seller taking into account the required repairs or just walking away from this car. He mentioned that the reason he was selling on his own was he is purchasing a new Subaru and the trade in the dealership gave him was only approx. $2000.00. If a revised price could be agreed upon and the HG and timing belt was replaced by Subaru should that ease my mind.
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
10/30/2019 08:47:02 am
[snarky but based on reality alert] Walk, no, run away from Subaru.
LIC Motorsports
10/30/2019 08:39:27 am
BOB- I would always recommend a Pre-Purchase Inspection on any vehicle, this is always a smart move. The timing belt should of been done on interval, which is 105k miles or 105 months (7.5 years or so), sounds like it wasn't done and yes you would want to do that with the head gasket service but do it complete (water pump, belt, tensioner, idlers, seals, etc.). Keep in mind valve cover gaskets are likely leaking at this time as well, would want to handle that at same time too.
Kevin
11/1/2019 08:10:33 pm
I have a 2014 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5L CVT. I am not a car mechanical person. I get my car serviced on a regular basis at Subaru. On 1/5/19, the dash lights were blinking like a Christmas tree. The car was over heating. Luckily I was close to a Subaru dealer. The radiator needed to be replaced due to a leak. It had 53.7K miles.
LIC Motorsports
11/4/2019 09:29:55 am
Your current issue is a result of the previous overheat. Anytime a Subaru overheats like that, its only a matter of time before the issue returns - typically always within a year.
LIC Motorsports
11/4/2019 09:37:05 am
GIULIANO FREEO- We own that exact car and same issue happened to us and it was as well taken care of as anyone could do. I don't have a % of cars its happened to but we have done a handful at our shop alone. Really feel its a cooling flow issue
TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit
11/4/2019 09:59:58 am
Statistics aside, the boxer engine and Subaru design requires anyone buying a car that they expect to drive 100k to stay away from the double whammy Subaru presents us with... Bad CVTs and bad head gaskets. Manual transmissions may avoid the CVT issues but the torque converter doesn't seem to be any good either.
LIC Motorsports
11/4/2019 10:19:01 am
The CVT's are a big issue. The 1st gen ones have bad torque converters . We have even new gen ones that are having major issues by 100k. Just had a 2015 Outback (CVT) in here with issues. We've had a handful of 14+ models with leaking from a seal at front of the transmission (inside the bell housing). Luckily we've caught those for our customers so they can get them warrantied/repaired by SOA. But in general, I foresee the CVT's not making it 200k+ like the old 4EAT/5EAT's did, which is a shame.
LIC Motorsports
11/8/2019 11:30:11 am
JAMES CRAIG ROSS - I say this daily. Cars are now made to be like cell phones. Every "x" amount of years, they are disposable and its the mentality of us as consumers driving that process.
Giuliano Freeo
11/8/2019 12:14:25 pm
So i went and looked at the 2002 ll bean 3.0 outback. Its well cared for and looks in good condition. There was definitely some oil seeping out of the block at each bolt point. Hard to know how bad the leak is when only taking it for a test drive. I did look where the car had been parked and it had 3 spots that were about 2 inches in diameter that had happened over the last 3-4 days. He is asking 2700 for it. How do i know if the leak is coming from the oil pan or just the block seeping oil? If its just a slow oil weep, then probably not a bad buy. Thoughts on whether this is a good deal?
LIC Motorsports
11/11/2019 08:23:52 am
That's a big oil leak and as such I would recommend having it checked out before you purchase something that is leaking that badly.
Jen
11/10/2019 07:55:17 am
I just want to say I have a 2014 Subaru Crosstrek XV, FB20, 300k miles both head gaskets are bad, oil in the coolant. My check engine light came on and the only code was cylinder miss fire. Bought a new engine only because it was easier, then having new head gaskets milled.
Jorg
11/11/2019 10:02:35 am
Hi Jen
LIC Motorsports
11/11/2019 03:15:19 pm
Anytime oil and coolant mix, you wouldn't be a candidate for just a "head gasket" repair job - so getting a new motor would be what was needed.
KW
11/11/2019 05:59:24 pm
I'm looking at a 2009 Impreza 2.5i with 98k miles. I know the head gasket has not been replaced, but otherwise the vehicle has been well-maintained. Asking price is $4,500. Would you advise against it? Ideally I would buy this car and use it for a four-day drive next month.
LIC Motorsports
11/12/2019 08:49:35 am
That year/make/model will have its HG service and 105k service needed and at $4500 you can expect to pay the same for those 2 services as well. Hard to justify at a $9k expense but if you're in the market for a used car and can stomach that, pretty hard to find any vehicle under $10k these days. So perhaps it makes sense to you but for most it wouldn't as if you were to get in an accident and you just spent all that money - you'd be lucky to get even the purchase price back out of it. Just a tough one to have make financial sense in the long run.
James
11/13/2019 01:17:33 pm
I bought a brand new 2013 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual transmission. It didn't pass the oil consumption test so Subaru put in a new engine after I'd driven about 25,000 miles. It now has about 45,000 miles. I took it into the Subaru dealership yesterday because I noticed it was again burning oil quickly. They called me today and said it was the head gaskets. They told me they were able to get Subaru to cover the costs due to the circumstances, even though my new replaced engine is out of warranty (apparently only covered for 1 year / 12,000 miles). Would you recommend I just sell it once it's repaired? Although it has yet to cost me anything in repairs, two engines both with major issues under 25,000 miles each has blown my confidence in keeping this car for any length of time.
LIC Motorsports
11/13/2019 01:22:05 pm
Good to hear they've covered but back to your question...the issue is, they're not correcting anything (like when they replaced the engine for oil consumption, as that was related to low friction piston rings that didn't work out properly - that issue has been corrected now) but they'll merely be putting it back in working order and it will likely suffer the same fate again, as its not a HG issue but rather a cooling issue causing issues on that engine. We've been seeing more and more of it recently.
JW
11/15/2019 01:04:51 am
Thinking about getting a 2005 Outback LL Bean with 171k miles on it for 3k. Owner told me the head gasket is leaking a little bit. Worth it? Since the vehicle is actually in San Francisco, may I also get a rough quote here for the job (EZ30 engine) pulse cam cover gasket, water pump and thermostat, etc. done at your place?
LIC Motorsports
11/15/2019 07:36:11 am
First and foremost - RUN. At that mileage and having a HG issue, you would be in upwards of 2x the cost they're looking to sell it for. When doing that job, you wouldn't only replace the water pump and t-stat, at the mileage you would need to do all the timing components - as you don't take off a stretched timing chain and reinstall that with 170k+ miles on it.
JW
11/15/2019 12:39:42 pm
Thanks for the super fast reply!
LIC Motorsports
11/15/2019 12:43:31 pm
JW- 2015+ models are good but yes they do have CVT's which have been somewhat problematic. Do know that 6cyl models are now out of production and as such, they're retaining values and at some point though will be limited on parts in future
MM
11/15/2019 11:31:52 pm
Hi so I own a 2002 WRX with 46k miles and noticed after an oil change that there was some white smoke that came out the exhaust but it quickly stopped. It smelled a bit sweet but more chemically than anything. I ignored it at first but then saw the coolant going down, I found one leak in one of the main radiator hoses and fixed that but it still seems to be leaking from somewhere else and dripping down near the oil filter off of the timing belt cover. Every now and then ill smell the exhaust and sometimes it will smell a bit sweet but not all the time. I immediately am thinking its the head gasket, but it seems so early for the head gasket to be going at 46k miles. From what I can see after an oil change there is no coolant in the oil and no oil in the coolant overflow. Not really sure where to go from here. I just ordered a block tester and I will see how that goes, but I would appreciate any sort of advice or ideas on what else I should do/look for.
LIC Motorsports
11/18/2019 07:55:00 am
The turbo models are not problematic in regards to this article but that's not to say you couldn't have a HG issue - it just wouldn't be related to what you've read in this post. In order to know what's going on with yours, it would need to be diagnosed. If you've overheated the car, regardless you will likely need a HG service done (as it warps the cylinder heads).
LIC Motorsports
11/25/2019 11:47:49 am
Your car is past due for the 105k service (which is 105k miles or 105 months) - in doing this service, the coolant is replaced. It's always best to do both the HG service and 105k together, as they intermingle in terms of work
Louis Illis
11/25/2019 12:13:48 pm
Im sorry hg servce means??
LIC Motorsports
11/25/2019 12:15:09 pm
LOUIS ILLIS- HG = Head Gasket
LIC Motorsports
11/27/2019 08:52:22 am
JOY GRITTON- The issue servicing "as recommended", as with any manufacture, they are selling the "Cost of Maintenance" with any vehicle, so when folks compare one vehicle to the next, they want to see them being on par or similar. This is when all the issues happened with Subaru - they chasing everyone else doing the bare minimum to get folks to just over 100k miles. If you only do the min they recommend, you can expect problems and is likely why your other vehicle is no longer financially feasible.
Lou Illis
11/27/2019 12:24:54 pm
Do you suggest tranny getting changed at dealer with genuine subaru fluid.Or go to an garage and maybe use valvoline tranny fluid?? Again my 2009 legacy has 56 thouand miles on it! Thanks
LIC Motorsports
12/2/2019 07:51:19 am
Your vehicle takes a very specific transmission fluid if its an automatic. Must be an ATF HP, if its a manual, yes you can use any 75w90 or 80/90
LIC Motorsports
12/2/2019 07:55:17 am
same as mentioned before...tend to have lots of oil leaks, consume lots of oil, but motor is robust. Keep in mind, the 3.0L technically needs to run the highest octane fuel they offer in your area at the gas station. The motors were not designed to be run on low test fuel.
Jordan
11/30/2019 10:15:42 am
We've got an 08 Outback (42,000mi) non turbo. Just diagnosed by dealer with leaky passenger head gasket.
LIC Motorsports
12/2/2019 07:53:23 am
That service sounds like it doesn't include the timing components, you will need/want to have this done at the same time (as its over 10 years old). The dealer typically will not use non OEM gaskets (aftermarket corrected ones) and will only use the OEM ones (the bad ones).
Kevin Wood
12/2/2019 12:41:15 pm
If a Subaru has a slow weeping leak due to a possible head gasket failure, how many miles/years does the head gasket actually last with just a weep of oil before the oil leak increases or other issues related to a head gasket arise? Thanks,
LIC Motorsports
12/2/2019 12:53:47 pm
Nobody can properly explain that with true accuracy, as it could be 1 mile or 20,000 - as the environment its in plays a roll from when that "weep" actually presents itself.
Garry
12/8/2019 06:35:48 am
Looking at buying a 2010 Outback with the 2.0L Turbo Diesel. Do these engines present with head gasket problems or excessive oil usage issues?
LIC Motorsports
12/9/2019 08:08:04 am
We don't have this vehicle here in the USA - I couldn't speak to its trustworthiness and/or issues with them
Beth
12/10/2019 04:30:37 am
Would you buy a 2012 Legacy with 88000 miles? 6 cylinder engine. My 2005 has 228k miles and headed toward a second head gasket repair. I can't afford it. Time to switch to Honda or Toyota?
LIC Motorsports
12/10/2019 08:14:52 am
Never see too many issues, other than those notated already throughout my responses here on on the 6cyl models. The 2010-2012's do have some torque converter issues. But if you're looking for much further than 200-225k on a vehicle in general, Subaru just isn't it...not yet anyways. Your comment will be posted after it is approved.
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