The Dreaded Subaru Head Gasket Issue

1/30/2014

Non turbo 4 cylinder applications all have head gasket issues, you've heard this before, most of you know this, and yes its a result of a bad/faulty design with the gasket.

The factory gaskets have a coating that deteriorates over time (typically between 80-120k miles. That range is dependent on if you've run the SOA mandatory coolant conditioner, which is designed to get you past that 100k mile hump).

The symptom of leaking "head gaskets" is oil weeping between the head/block surfaces. This weep over time turns into a significant leak, which then turns into coolant leaking as well, after that symptom you often times will go into overheating, from there its a few mile slippery slope...which then has coolant and oil intermingling together.

If you haven't guessed it yet, this is where bearings get trashed, you develop a rod knock and hopefully at this point you've realized its about to be over but recognize before the next critical stage.

The sad thing is....it doesn't need to get to this point. If you work with a specialty shop its easy to point out early on when this is happening (at the weeping stage) and proactively fixing it. By doing so, you 1- secure your investment with your vehicle, 2- save yourself the headache of being broken down on the side of the road, and 3- you get to enjoy your car for another X amount of miles b/c you didn't let it catastrophically fail.

Did you know when we do head gasket jobs here at LIC Motorsports we don't install the same gaskets that do the same thing? Would you be shocked to know that the dealer and most other independents still install these bad/faulty gaskets to this day when they perform this job (reason being is Subaru hasn't revised the gasket on the older SOHC vehicles).

These vehicles all have cylinder head gasket related issues:

Impreza 1999 to 2011
Forester 1999 to 2010
Legacy 2000 to 2009
Outback 2000 to 2009
Baja 2003 to 2006

You can purchase revised/upgraded gaskets here: Non Turbo Upgraded MLS Head Gaskets

More info about our Head Gasket Service here: Maintenance Service Page

Here is images of when someone has let it go to far and more or less driven there car into the "ground" (that slurry leaking out is the "milkshake" of coolant/oil that has mixed).

390 Comments

NewOwner

6/13/2018 01:38:54 pm

Just bought 2009 Subaru Outback Special 2.5i with 98k miles for $9,900 in perfect condition. Only thing wrong slight leak from oil pan gasket and will have mechanic repair for $240. Last year previous owner at 83k miles replaced power steering pump, timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, valve cover gaskets, head gaskets at Subaru Dealer. They installed gaskets part#11044AA633 single layered. I found from reading the old blog it is better to use the MLS or FelPro, etc but previous owner didn't request either. Question: How long do I have before the heads leak again? Was the original 83k a good estimate to hope for?

Noah

6/13/2018 02:00:04 pm

Really just depends on how they did the repair work. If they resurfaced the heads and did the job properly (which they don't all do), it'll last that 80-100k ish. If they didn't resurface the cylinder heads and just slapped it together (which is common for dealers to do), you'll be lucky to get 30k out of it.

NewOwner

6/13/2018 02:08:58 pm

Thanks for your quick reply! Would they list resurfacing the heads on the Dealer repair/work order (it's not listed on what they gave me)? Or do I have to call and quiz them on their procedure? Thanks Again!

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

7/19/2019 01:22:12 pm

2011 4-cylinder 2.5l engines have a known issue with the head gasket!

At this point, the generation (to 2015) is showing signs of the same old thing happening. Logic says not to trust ANY Subaru product. (Their CVT transmissions are crap along with other crucial components.)

I *was* a long time Subaru owner... 3 decades. Never again. This car will not be the hand-me-down to my kids I bought it to be.

If I wanted my purchase to end up this crappy, I would have bought Nissan, German or American.

May Google find this post and save people from the misery I now suffer.

LIC Motorsports

7/22/2019 08:40:00 am

Like you mention, we have seen plenty of issues with HG's on the 2010+ models as well - although this isn't from (like in this article) a faulty designed gasket, we believe its from inadequate cooling.

We've seen many issues with CVT's too. Subaru early on telling people to NOT service them is the culprit. Of all the Subaru's we have maintained and told folks they must service the transmission, we have had zero issues thus far.

I think most cars are now being made like cell phones, they aren't being designed to last the test of time and/or to be a hand me down with a couple hundred thousand miles. Parts are made cheaper and just aren't being designed to last. It's a shame but we see it across the board on most makes.

Steve

9/11/2019 04:35:55 pm

I came to the same conclusion. I'm not buying Subaru anymore. I buy a new car and drive it until it dies. Which brand do you recommend?

sam

9/15/2019 03:41:33 pm

I agree with you.. its sucha major issue and so costly in first world country to fix, even mechanically inclined it takes significant time and resources away from my day to day job not to mention the unpredictable nature of repairing old cars with seized bolts etc.. its simply not worth fixing, very major issue with a car basically becomes junk, i owned and loved subaru for 15 years but done now.

Peter Petruzzi link

10/22/2019 05:15:22 pm

You are right. My friend has a gas station and i have been seeing late model subaru’s with head gasket problems. I have two 2011 Outbacks. One with 115000, and another one with 54000 miles on it. Time to dump the one with 115000 on it.

Kristin

11/2/2019 02:41:16 pm

I almost bought a 2017 Subaru Outback today with 25,000 miles for $20,000 cash. I decided to think about it until Monday and got online and read all about the head gasket issues and ran across your post. You have helped me decide to PASS on Subaru altogether. Thank you! I’m sorry about your misery tho!

Evan Alexon

1/4/2020 11:30:13 am

Just got rid of my 2016 outback with 2.5 l non turbo 4. 64k miles. Problems started at 25k miles. Going thru 1 pint or more of coolant every 3000 miles. SUBURA dealer in scottsdale kept telling me that this was normal for this engine....wrong, not normal for any newer four cylinder engine. They are hiding this defect to the public. Never will buy a subaru again (added to my list of cars not to buy: Chevy, ford, Chrysler, dodge and Yugo).

TIREDOFSUBARULIESANDDECEIT link

1/6/2020 08:19:15 am

Evan and everyone,

Please, I beg you all who have had the head gasket, transmission problems or anything that could cause the car to stop running while on the road, please report it to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration.

It is a serious safety issue for someone to be driving a car and have a sudden failure. Think about going down the freeway at 65 miles an hour and suddenly stopping. No brake lights, no warning, just stopping and having some big rig behind you. It could be fatal! By reporting your issues to the NHTSA, it could force Subaru to start taking care of the people who own these cars and prevent a possible accident.

Something else, if you've already paid an independent shop like LIC, customers may be able to get compensation after the fact.

By not reporting, they are getting away with this...

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

Jimmy

1/6/2020 03:47:31 pm

Evan Alexon is funny, I ONLY buy when it comes to asian: Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai and Kia that are really been good to me and maybe only turbo Subarus. NEVER Nissan or Honda. If I buy American, I ONLY buy Ford and it's affiliate brands. NEVER DODGE. If european, well, nothing seems to be reliable perhaps only Volvo. German cars are straigth overrated junk...

Rich Murray

5/27/2020 01:11:17 pm

Amen. A head gasket replacement on a vehicle (my 2011 with 85k miles) is ridiculous.

Should have dumped this thing years ago. Stinks too because it's an otherwise really nice car.

Brandon

12/3/2020 12:15:22 am

If anyone’s on the hunt for a reliable awd car after having the nightmares associated with a subaru like i did (head gasket, transmission, power steering system, exhaust rotted away) you might want to consider an infiniti g37x, their extremely reliable with a solid v6 platform, pretty quick with 330hp, have a comparable if not better awd system (like seriously i’ve taken it through 4ft of snow with no issues whatsoever) and best of all are actually cheaper then most subaru’s, you can easily pick up a used one for under 10k, they easily last into the 400,000km+ range as long as you do regular maintenance, i own one and it’s night and day better then my old subaru, my sibling and a few close friends have now picked them up as well and are extremely happy with them, it’s a very good alternative to a subaru from a brand that hardly anyone even knows about

Trey Vives

10/20/2020 07:22:15 pm

I’m looking at a 2007 Impreza 2.5i with less than 100,000 km and now I’m spooked. It’s in good condition at a solid price. Is it worth it or should I try my luck elsewhere?

LIC Motorsports

10/21/2020 07:07:42 am

It's guaranteed to have HG issues soon, that era doesn't escape this issue, as its a design flaw in the gaskets.

Noah

6/13/2018 03:17:26 pm

NewOwner- yes it would be listed on your repair order/invoice if it was done.

Joy Gritton

11/25/2019 07:49:06 pm

We have a 2011 Forester with 137,000 miles that recently started dying (literally--it cuts out when stopped at lights, etc.). Our mechanic ran diagnostics and replaced spark plugs and coil. It has only gotten worse. We took it to the nearest dealer this week and they charged $100 to tell us that they would need to do a "tear down" at a cost of $1000 to see what was wrong and we would probably be looking at a new engine or head block? We don't think paying much money out on this car at this age and mileage would be wise. But we are getting cold feet about buying a new Forester given this experience (previously we had Hondas that never quit at this level of mileage. We bought the car new and have serviced it according to recommendations. Should we look at returning to Hondas?

LIC Motorsports

11/26/2019 03:04:46 pm

This sounds more like a torque converter having issues but hard to say from afar. Folks whom come from Honda or Toyota's typically get jaded with Subarus real quickly - as they are not as resilient or robust with minimal amount of maintenance and care. CRV or Rav4's are very nice these days ;-)

Joy Gritton

11/26/2019 04:00:04 pm

Thank you for responding so quickly! The dealer has worked with us to get the trade in money up and some other perks (plus the $750 loyalty coupon) so that we are going to spring for a 2020 Forester. We really like the visibility of the Foresters and the interiors seem "roomier" somehow than the CR-V, or at least the layout if more to our liking. The price matched a 2018 touring model of a CR-V we were considering, so it was hard to pass up, although I am still leery of the mechanics of this car. Can you please suggest what types of maintenance you recommend? We want to do whatever we can to ensure the health of this new Subaru. We serviced it according to the recommendations before, but obviously something went wrong!

Ian

3/18/2020 09:44:43 am

Some people never learn... ‘03 Impreza OBS was my first Subaru, and my last.

Darrell Zylstra link

2/7/2020 07:14:26 am

I agree to all frustrations. These problems should go back to Subaru. They fully well know that these cars have this problem, they did nothing to fix it and now they leave it to the consumer, not right! To never again buy a Subaru would be the way to go, but some of us are stuck with this car and it’s head gasket problem. Now with hard earned money spent on a car that we can’t even sell even if it only has 90,000 miles on it. There should be a way to get all owners together and as a group sue them for all damages and suffering. If the repair was $50 they would have fixed it right away, but because it’s expensive to repair they turn a blind eye. I’d say definitely report any road side, die on the highway should be reported to traffic control in your area. We need to get together as a large group of people to fight them. They have lots of money so they can push away any single person with their fancy lawyers.

Paul Cassone

2/13/2020 06:20:03 pm

I agree that owners need to get together to combat this issue. Our 2010 Outback with 109,000 miles on it failed on the highway on our way to Pennsylvania. We were able to limp to a dealer who says the engine is leaking coolant. We are looking at $1200 to tear it down to see what's going on and they're saying $8000 - $9000 if we need a new engine. I asked about replacing the headgasket and re-milling if warped and they are very non-committal. Subaru has a lousy temperature monitoring system with that idiot light, especially since it's known that all the lights on many of these cars are buggy. The owner's manual refers to electrical problems related to these lights. Defective design! We need to make them make good on this!

Amanda

3/23/2020 09:21:40 pm

Hi Darrell and all others reading this post. Thanks for writing about your head gasket problems with your Subaru. My 2008 Subaru Outback has roughly 85,000 miles on it. I received word from dealer and independent Subaru mechanic that there are leaks in the gasket and other areas of my car. I bought the car used 1 year ago in March 2019. Expensive repairs that I didn’t want to deal with so quickly after purchasing the car. My car thankfully didn’t break down on side of the road. But I don’t feel safe driving it. What did you end up doing with your Subaru?

Josh Isralowitz

7/7/2018 10:06:10 am

2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5i owner with 60k miles here.

I do regular (3-4k miles) oil changes, don't drive it cold in winter, plan to do a coolant flush at 70k miles and use the OEM conditioner, and changed (and will continue to change) the battery before any real corrosion occurred,

Anything else I can do to get the head gasket past the 100k mark? Does it matter what kind of oil I use? Does gumout every now and then help?

LIC Motorsprots

7/9/2018 07:55:56 am

That year/make/model does not have the issues mentioned in this post. Subaru revised the gaskets in 2010 for the outback and legacy's. Although with that being said, we do still see a lot of HG issues on your model car, reason being is the cars tend to run hot, which warp the heads, which leads to HG repair as well....but its not due to a faulty gasket like the older models mentioned in this post.

Ed Smith

9/10/2019 02:43:06 am

So basically Same Song, just a different dance. Is that really considered a solution to the core problem???

Meaghan Metcalfe

10/2/2020 04:20:54 pm

We have a 2012 Subaru Forester that had the engine recalled for HG issue. The replacement engine is now having HG failure with only 40,000 mi and our dealership says we are out of luck. This is our 3rd Subaru failure under 100K and our last. We are now deciding what to do with it and what next car to get. Can’t believe they can just keep giving out crappy engines. Our transmission is around 85,000 mi and going as well.

Joy

11/29/2019 06:26:33 am

Again, thank you for such a quick and helpful response. We are in unchartered territory now of having a new 2020 Forester. We will follow your advice regarding servicing, and will hope that we get close to the mileage of a Honda out of the car this time around. You are offering such a wonderful service to people with your BLOG discussions--I'm sure there are many out there who, like me, are very appreciative! Equipped with the balanced and sensible guidance you provide, I feel we have a better chance of enjoying our Forester for many years to come!

simonponder

12/22/2019 12:44:19 pm

2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5i owner here as well. 192k miles here. I have always performed synth oil changes around every 10k miles, which ends up around 2-3 times a year. Minimum miles I put on the vehicle is about 400 a week, a mix of city, country, and highway. No major problems on the vehicle until needing to replace crank and cam seals a few weeks back.

Replaced an O2 sensor and cleaned a couple sensors, but that would round out the repairs I had performed, up until the seals mentioned above. That, I completed with no problem, including the swapping out of water pump, re-seal of oil pump. Changed an idler pulley or two, tensioner, and timing belt and reset time with no issue. Changed the serpentine and an idler and tensioner on the accessory belt side as well. The car purred when restarted and was showing no signs of head gasket seepage.

The only thing I didn't change was the thermostat. Decision was made to switch back to the previous water pump, as the new one was not cooling to my acceptance. During this process it seems that some how a valve or two on the odd side got bent. I am now researching the replacement of that side head as the other side is still holding 160+ psi compression on an engine that has almost 200k and 8 years since being made.

I think the moral of my story is to know more than what you think you should before attempting a repair, as I more than likely turned the crank while the cam was not in the best position for such movement.

LIC Motorsports

12/26/2019 10:06:34 am

not having the timing lined up properly, will cause the scenario you have (bent valves).

John

7/7/2018 07:15:48 pm

I believe only the 2.5l engines had this issue. The 2.2l is generally fine. Mine has 270k on it and is only now barely starting to weep oil I think, but not enough to register on the dipstick

LIC Motorsports

7/9/2018 07:57:39 am

correct, as mentioned in this article, its for the SOHC 2.5L vehicles. The 2.2L is the best motor Subaru made and commonly get 300k+ miles. It's a shame they stopped producing these almost 20 years ago.

Cindy

8/10/2018 02:47:24 am

Still searching for my older model beloved Outback...kissed a lot of pigs this past year and been on my share of wild goose chases. Came across an 06 LL Bean 154,000 one owner, never wrecked. Clean
Anything with this year to look out for. Thanks 😊

LIC Motorsports

8/10/2018 09:12:59 am

Those are great engines but typically have significant oil leaks at that mileage but that's normal for year/make/model.

Cindy

8/10/2018 10:13:05 am

Too many miles for your liking?
Should I continue my search.?
Highly value your opinion.
Thank you...appreciate you very much

Cindy

8/10/2018 10:19:38 am

Can anything be done to correct this oil leak issue? Is it a big deal or a manageable thing if it's a good car.

LIC Motorsports

8/10/2018 10:22:07 am

Cindy- Its ok mileage for the year/model. Yes it can all be fixed, its just costly on the 6 cyl models but if you get the car for a decent price, well worth it and manageable

Cindy

8/10/2018 12:00:00 pm

It's being checked out now...but has a few places on it I'm not liking.👎
I guess I'm gravitating towards the 6 cyl. Because of the 4 cyl head gasket issue. But I love the llbean
Thank you as always

LIC Motorsports

8/10/2018 01:56:36 pm

I think you're likely best to stick with a 6 cyl model, although they have some issues at higher mileage, if well maintained, they outlast the 4 cyl by at min 50%

Cindy

8/11/2018 02:48:18 am

Many, many thanks❤️

Cindy

8/19/2018 10:47:29 am

Just had to let you know how it played out. Doesn't it feel nice to be right when you give advice!!
Well, you were absolutely correct. The 06 LL Bean 6cyl.
Had a MAJOR oil leak..oil pan gasket...
Off to the Auction it went for some poor soul to buy!

Your the best...
Just want your followers to see....YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT👍

LIC Motorsports

8/20/2018 07:30:50 am

Always happy to speak honestly and to help ;-)

Michael Jones link

10/19/2018 11:15:07 am

What are your thoughts on the 2.5L turbo motor, i.e. 2005 Legacy GT.

Same HG issues as on the NA motors or worse?

LIC Motorsports

10/19/2018 11:31:16 am

Turbo models are fine, they do not suffer the same flaw as the NA gaskets - as they are MLS from the factory.

Anita

4/30/2020 07:28:31 pm

I am going to look at a 2009 Legacy 2.5GT Limited and it says it’s a 2.5L Turbo. The article and one of your responses says Turbo doesn’t have the gasket issue. The dealer did disclose to me it has a very minor gasket leak.
Is the “head gasket issue” of this article not applicable?

Thomas Schmoller

10/25/2018 04:47:06 am

Does the head gasket problem plague the n/a 2.0L 2011 Impreza's I've not seen anything online about there 2.0l engines, only 2.5/2.2

LIC Motorsports

10/25/2018 08:07:25 am

Although the FA/FB motors do NOT suffer from head gasket issues as mentioned in this article - do know that the 11-13's were part of a class action lawsuit due to massive motor oil consumption issues. https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

We have seen issues all the way up to model year 2014 and highly recommend only 15+ models (which we have seen no issues with to date).

Zach

11/18/2018 07:53:24 pm

Have a 2011 Subaru Outback Prem 2.5 non turbo with 156k miles. Started to overheat the other night for the first time and spewed coolant out of the reservoir. Have had an issue with a leak from the bottom hose previously which threw the code. Got it fixed and it drove perfect for 3 days. No mayo on the stick or filler cap, no mysterious disappearance of coolant, no white smoke, no bubbles in the radiator or reservoir so I’m kind of stumped. Don’t want to go to a Subaru dealer and them say it’s HG but I’m kind of feeling like that’s what’s going to happen. Any advice?

LIC Motorsports

11/19/2018 07:43:17 am

Sounds like the car for sure overheated due lack of coolant in the system - likely from that lower hose connection you mentioned. Which has resulted in warped head(s) - when heads warp, exhaust gases will push the coolant out of the system and out the reservoir bottle....that's a blown head gaskets unfortunately.

Sabry Soliman

1/20/2019 10:57:37 am

I just bought a 2009 Subaru Outback in March 2018, 2 moth after I bought it the dealer confirmed a HG leaking in both sides, I read about the faulty engine and HG design, if I used a cooper racing and performance HG, would this will be better fix to overcome the faulty design?

LIC Motorsports

1/21/2019 09:03:18 am

There is upgraded gaskets now available. I wouldn't use a copper gasket and/or spray, as copper needs to be retorqued once installed and doing that on a Subaru is out of the question.

Simon Ponder

1/6/2020 10:18:51 am

Hey LIC, he said Cooper Racing, not copper. I would use Fel-Pro or Subaru's updated gasket.

Cindy

2/9/2019 04:05:08 pm

Hi there...
I finally found my Subaru. 2005 outback llbean in prestine condition. Adult owned well maintained.
145,000.

......Which oil brand should I use ?

......which weight?

Thank you
Cindy

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 08:21:28 am

Hello Cindy, we use Motul 8100 5w30 or 5w40 depending on mileage of the car and climate you're in.

Cindy

2/11/2019 08:36:49 am

145,000 Norfolk Va. East coast

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 08:38:36 am

stick with 5w30

james craig ross

11/8/2019 11:26:22 am

What we are not seeing here is the under 'lying' policy that motor vehicles follow...one of in-built redundancy...why make a product that lasts if aftermarket spares are the only ones making money.make a technologically advanced car that will not last but appreciated enough for the suckers to come back. this form of consumerism is across the board and not only in automobiles...fancy and short lived...Subaru probably knew that mls gaskets were better...Like Nissan knew that Cvt was cheaper to make and more likely to fail but could see the profitability in the concept.

Cindy

2/11/2019 08:41:13 am

Since I do not know the history of weather synthetic oil was used, should I start NOW using synthetic oil?
Thank you

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 08:48:26 am

Synthetic should be used in everything these days.

Cindy

2/11/2019 08:51:11 am

You are the Subaru GURU.....Thank you👍❤️

LIC Motorsports

2/11/2019 09:00:25 am

No problem...

Jaysan

3/1/2019 05:51:13 am

Hi, I’m currently shopping for a used Subaru Baja Turbo. If I’ve understood the previous comments correctly, I shouldn’t have to worry about the head gadget issues right? Is there anything I should be looking out for?

LIC Motorsports

3/1/2019 07:46:24 am

Although the turbo models do not suffer from the issues mentioned in this article, it doesn't mean it can't still have head gasket related issues - but it won't be due to the faulty design. As with any turbo model Subaru, you'd want records that someone has been diligently maintaining it.

Brian

2/8/2020 03:14:13 pm

The head gaskets on by 2011 WRX (Turbo 2.5) failed at 96,000 miles.

Don't buy a Subbie with the 2.5

Joad

3/9/2019 06:09:18 am

Hello,
My wife & I have a ‘98 Forester. It is the n/a 2.5 5-speed with about 225k miles on it. It started overheating with about 205k miles on it. Everything was pointing to head gaskets so I pulled the engine & did those. I took the heads to a reputable local machine shop that I’ve been using for many years. I went ahead and had them do a full head service including a valve job & surfacing while they had them. I used Fel-Pro gaskets & head bolts for reassembly. At this time I figured at least this part of the car would be good for another 100k (other than scheduled maintenance) so I did the timing belt, water pump, most coolant hoses & vacuum lines using mostly original OEM parts.

Now at the 225k mark, only 20k later, it looks like there is already another head gasket issue with overheating & funky coolant. I’m kinda blaming my wife’s slightly aggressive driving style. lol The car isn’t perfect but it’s still solid enough that I don’t mind throwing more effort at it but I certainly would like to avoid this happening again so quick if I do decide to go back into it. I really like keeping cars rolling well past what most consider their useful life span. But with the recent purchase of a business my time is at a bit of a premium so I’m just trying to decide if it makes sense. I’ve thought of maybe getting a whole rebuilt engine of some type.

What are your thoughts/advice on this car?

Thanks!
Joad

LIC Motorsports

3/11/2019 10:02:19 am

Sounds like you did the right things and did the job complete - as it should be done. Hard to say ultimately what you got going on from a distance but I would question if you used an OEM/Genuine water pump. I see you listed mostly OEM stuff but did you happen to use an aftermarket water pump? If not, check out this article: https://www.licmotorsports.com/blog/why-we-use-oem-subaru-genuine-water-pumps

Bob

3/11/2019 12:31:05 pm

Hello, I have a 2003 Legacy Outback with 110,500 miles. Seven years ago, at 75,900 miles, I had to replace the cylinder head gasket because of an external oil leak. At that time, the dealer said that the catalyst was "below efficiency" and had to be replaced. Expensive! Now, only 34,600 miles later, it is developing an external oil leak again. My questions are: 1) Was the catalyst failure caused by a leak of the head gasket and contamination of the combustion gases? 2) Since there is evidence of an external leak at the head gasket, is it a certainty that fuel, coolant, and/or oil are mixing internally, too? 3) If I drive short distances (2 miles to work and store, occasionally 50 miles to the airport) how do I tell if I'm wrecking the engine? 4) Is there anything I can do besides replace the head gasket again? Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

3/11/2019 12:43:26 pm

If you had the same gaskets installed (meaning OEM ones), it would be expected within 10 years that they would leak again - as Subaru has never corrected the issue with the gaskets.

I have never seen HG's destroy the catalytic converters, although you can get a false test stating they're bad when the HG's are bad. If you let it go for far too long and intermingling of fluids happened, yes it would be expected that the cat's would get damaged. Once you have a leak externally, its a slippery slope. You might be the person whom makes it another 10k before catastrophic failure or 10 miles....there is no way of knowing and if you have the oil and coolant mixing, you got a short distance/miles before it breaks.

Once you see the leak, its needs to be fixed, unless you're reserved to the fact of letting it catastrophically fail. But don't risk damaging it, then repairing it, only to find out after the fact you damaged it by driving it for too long while the HG's were bad.

Joseph

3/15/2019 06:12:18 pm

HI, I am deliberating on whether to have a head gasket job done on my 2006 Subaru Tribeca with 150,000 miles. The cost is nearly eclipsing the value of the vehicle. My question is whether this is straightforward engine repair or is their a likelihood of additional hidden damage to internal parts, or cracks in the engine block, cylinder warping etc...

Since identifying the problem, the car has been garaged,starts and runs like normal with the exception is that coolant needs to be added so not sure what damage might of been done to the engine.

Any insights you can provide on whether this is a high risk repair would be appreciated.

LIC Motorsports

3/18/2019 02:53:26 pm

Really hard to say not knowing what you will get into once it gets opened up. I will say its uncommon to have head gasket issues on a 6 cyl model and an indicator of a larger issue typically. Which is worrisome in regards with the need to keep adding coolant to the cooling system. I think you have the higher probability of getting into further work - albeit at time of repair or in near future (catalytic converts, etc.)

Joseph

3/18/2019 04:57:03 pm

First mechanic I took it to said I need a new waterpump and suggested the thermostat be changed as well. Interestingly I do not see coolant puddles on the floor of my garage. Second mechanic, that being the local Subaru dealer says leaking water pump, gasket covers and coolant in oil. I ran a block test siphoning suspect combustive gases from the radiator, using blue die and interestingly the die never changed to yellow suggesting no combustive gases. How accurate these tests are is beyond my knowledge. So I am in a quandary as to whether to junk the car or repair the vehicle....

LIC Motorsports

3/19/2019 07:41:01 am

Joseph- it's a tough predicament and understandable on the confusion of the "what should I do". The problem with scenarios like this is the have that unknown factor and added expense if things don't go as hoped. With that being said, the 6 cyl is one of the better motors Subaru made and tend to be a lot more robust then the 4 cyl variants.

Joseph DCruz

3/25/2019 02:22:16 pm

Opted to dispose of the 2006 vehicle as the anticipated mounting repair costs would far exceed the value of the car, just didn't make sense to continue to take risk. It was a great SUV while it lasted.

Happen to own a 2013 Subaru Tribeca as well with about a third of the mileage as the 2006. Plenty of life left in this one with no issues thus far.

LIC Motorsports

3/25/2019 02:58:26 pm

I own a Tribeca (same motor as your Outback) myself, been pretty rock solid for my family and only normal wear/tear items needing attention. Ours currently has 150k on it and I expect it to still go another 100k without too many issues - the 3.6L motor is one of the best motors Subaru made, its a shame its now been discontinued.

Mary Wilson

3/23/2019 06:45:12 pm

Looking at a 2011 Subaru Outback with 164,000 miles. My mechanic says there is an oil leak (head gasket). The head gasket was just replaced last June. Should I run?

LIC Motorsports

3/25/2019 11:56:35 am

I would say it has underlining issues and looking at buying a car like that would financially not make a lot of sense (in my opinion). If it was free or nearly free, might be worth it.

Kirsten

3/27/2019 11:25:45 pm

Hi I’m considering buying a 2011 or 2012 Forester. Both have the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine. Do these have the dreaded head gasket issue? Cars are “low mileage” 50K rebuilt (salvage), had body work done. Good cars? Bad cars? Do you know which year might be better? I really like the Forester but I’m a bit leery because I’ve heard some head gasket stories.

LIC Motorsports

3/28/2019 07:34:35 am

I would steer clear any any 11-13 and honestly 14 non turbo Foresters, as they dont have head gasket issues but they were all part of a class action lawsuit due to massive oil consumption issues. This also extends into other models of this era.

We advise, 2015+ models, as I have yet to see any issues with them.

Here is an article about the engine oil issues on that era you're looking into: https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

Kirsten

3/28/2019 04:27:41 pm

Thank you very much. If you have a few more minutes.....does this also apply to much older foresters? I found a super clean 04 with only 85K miles. Basically I need a 4wd car, I like Foresters & Outbacks, and I don’t want to spend more than 10k so I’m looking at used. Suggestions welcome. Maybe should stop looking at Subaru’s altogether.... hmmm

LIC Motorsports

3/28/2019 04:34:32 pm

Kirsten- the 04 would have the issues as mentioned in this blog post, which is the head gasket issue and at the mileage you can count on it needing them done ASAP (its most likely why someone is selling it right now)

Lee

3/31/2019 01:35:50 pm

2010 Forester leaking oil just turned 40k!

LIC Motorsports

4/1/2019 07:44:53 am

Not shocking to be honest, as its a mileage or time thing - which typically is 80-120k or about 10 years.

Rob M

4/2/2019 01:02:14 pm

I am looking at an '05 Outback wagon with the 2.5L and they are in the process of changing the head gasket seal with a "fel pro gasket". Is this the desirable replacement part or the original faulty one? Also, should I be concerned that they are also replaced(ing) the "engine oil cooler gasket" and "valve cover gasket set"? They are supposed to be a private seller, but at this point I am thinking they are actually a small reseller or automotive shop. It seems they have at least multiple Subaru and possibly other vehicles. Found them through CL. Need to get a cheap vehicle that will last a few years that is a bit bigger and would like to have the gas mileage a Subaru offers over our other possible vehicle selection a Explorer. We drive our second car 50-200 miles per week and even at that few miles it would save us over $500 a year in fuel, but I am a bit concerned about repair costs. I can do some repairs on the Explorer, but far fewer on the Subaru I think. Then again the high rate of failure in the Explorer transmission would render our $3-5k Explorer a giant paper weight more or less. Thanks for any feedback. I have read this post, all the comments, and some other posts and think your site is amazing and am leaning more towards a Subaru than ever just because of the resources you provide.

LIC Motorsports

4/2/2019 02:23:20 pm

Longevity depends so much on how one cared for the car previously and it's current mileage - higher mileage vehicles will always have more maintenance/repair/failures.

I know of Fel-Pro aftermarket gaskets, we have unfortunately only seen them failed when they come through here on other cars. It's not a brand I use here.

I wouldn't think an older gen Subaru would get much better mileage than a Explorer to be honest - for around town driving in an older gen Subaru, you'd be lucky to get 16-18 mpg...if it was mostly freeway, around 22-26 mpg.

Rob M

4/3/2019 03:50:00 am

Thanks for the prompt response. And it sounds like a no go on that Subaru. Saw your comments on the 3.0 earlier in the comment section. I am going to look at an '05 ll bean 3.0 with 141k this weekend. It has been on CL for at least 1 month at around $5k. Am I missing the reason this has been on for so long? The price seems reasonable and I am fairly certain I can get that down at least another $500-800. Any particular issues I should look out for other than the oil leaks you had mentioned in an earlier comment? Thanks again, it is pretty cool that you guys respond to so many people with so many questions. Even the ones that don't bother to read your post or prior comments on the post.

LIC Motorsports

4/3/2019 07:11:41 am

Rob M- As you read, they are good cars, more robust engines and yes at that mileage, its going to have oil leaks (which can be costly). The main thing at that mileage is its maintenance history, especially the transmission fluid changes, as this is right at the mileage the transmission will start having major issues if it was neglected on its maintenance intervals (which is every 30k or 30 months). In addition, the 3.0L engines were required to run at min 91 octane fuel - although most didn't do this, it does leave excess carbon in the engine.

Fuel economy will approx 20% less then its 4 cyl variant. 14-16 around town, 18-20 freeway is typical.

Rob M

4/3/2019 12:25:37 pm

Great info. Thanks. Last question(I think). Would you suggest a 4 cylinder that has been repaired(HG and water pump) and is at 120k miles or a 6 cylinder around the same or a bit higher? Without knowing anymore about maintenance. I can't tell from your comments if you are just being very straight forward or if Subarus may need a bit more upkeep than an average car, but will last longer.

LIC Motorsports

4/3/2019 12:42:23 pm

I would personally go with a 6 cyl do to the fact the engine is more robust - it also helps that it holds 7 qts of oil vs a non turbo older 4 cyl model that only holds 4.5 qts....by nature, even if folks are neglectful to both, the 6 cyl will fare better due to this fact alone.

Lots of folks come from Honda/Toyota and those cars can be abused, run out of oil, no services and just keep chugging along.
Subarus are more upkeep than the average vehicle, if you aren't on top of your maintenance, they break.....maintenance is everything on them!

Rob M

4/4/2019 11:39:45 am

Thanks again. I am going to check out the 6 cylinder on Saturday. I am pretty sure I am going to have it checked out by a local mechanic before I make a final decision. If it all checks out he asking $5k, but I think he will be negotiable since it shows the listing has been up over 30 days on CL. It looks pretty clean inside and out from the photos. I am thinking about starting at the $4-4,200 range and trying to keep it under $4,500 if I do buy it. I know prices vary by region and I am in CT, but is that a good price to shoot for if it is cleared by a mechanic? Would I be better off having it checked by an actual Subaru mechanic or would I be just as well off going with a cheaper independent shop? Again, thanks for taking the time to respond to all my comments.

LIC Motorsports

4/4/2019 12:56:54 pm

Hard to say on pricing - it's dependent on region and condition/records of work done on the vehicle. I think specialty shops are always best for pre-purchase inspections as they can quickly pinpoint issues, etc.

Kevin

4/6/2019 03:44:19 pm

Greetings; May be going to look at a 2010 Legacy with 144K miles.I know the head gasket is the newer design, so unless there's warping, we should be good there right? Anything else to be concerned about or other reasons for oil leaks, should we see evidence of any?

LIC Motorsports

4/8/2019 07:48:58 am

Although the 2010+ Outback's now have a MLS gasket (corrected ones), we have seen and done a ton of Head Gasket jobs due to overheating - reason being is the cooling system seems to be fairly inadequate and the cars run warm often. Over the course of time, this ends up warping heads. We even own a 2012 Outback and had to do head gaskets on it even though it never "over heated" without true temp gauges, you don't know when its been running too hot. Those cars just have a blue light when fluid is cold and red if its "too hot". Its not a great way to keep an eye on things unfortunately.

Kevin C Simcoe

4/8/2019 07:52:00 am

Thanks so much...As I investigated further, I found out that the 2010 Legacy we're interested in has the 3.6 six cylinder. What's your experience with these? Thanks again for you wisdom and willingness to help others with it.

LIC Motorsports

4/8/2019 07:57:02 am

KEVIN C SIMCOE- as mentioned in other posts, the 3.6L is probably the most robust engine Subaru has made. My wife drives one of these and at 150k we've had zero issues....other than front cover oil leaks (which are a total pain to be honest but its just part of higher mileage vehicle stuff). Other than that, no issues...but maintenance is everything. You want to make sure service work has been done, especially on the transmission, as that's the mileage they tend to have issues if someone has neglected servicing.

Kevin C Simcoe

4/8/2019 08:14:13 am

Perfect...thank you and have a blessed day.

LIC Motorsports

4/8/2019 08:15:24 am

As well as to you too...take care!

David

12/8/2019 12:44:02 am

Your information and opinions are extremely helpful,,...thank you.

Question,,,,I have a 2015 outback with the 3.6 liter engine, it only has 67k miles. The 60k major service has been done at the dealer.
What I don’t understand is they claim the CVT doesn’t require service for the life of the vehicle. I find that hard to believe. What do you recommend.

THKS

LIC Motorsports

12/9/2019 07:58:30 am

Thats actually 100% incorrect. When the CVT's were implemented, they actually increased the interval service - from every 30k miles, to 24,855 (just look in back of your manual) - its also why SOA has increased the drivetrain warranty for the transmission from the standard 5 year / 60k to 10 year / 100k. This is because they were recommending as they are to you, which is to never do it. DO NOT do, no such thing as "lifetime fluid". We recommend every 30k or 3 years for servicing on the transmission/diffs.

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

12/9/2019 08:01:26 am

It's for the "life" - As Scotty Kilmer says "the life of the warranty."

obviously, they do not want the transmission to fail while it is under warranty. After it is out of warranty, it's all on you.

Rob S

4/16/2019 10:15:43 pm

I previously took a 2008 Legacy I was considering buying to my mechanic and he mentioned the HG issue that has plagued Subarus of that era, which brought me here. I'm now looking at a 2008 Impreza 2.5 i and was curious about your experience with these models, or of any major concerns that are typically associated with them?

LIC Motorsports

4/17/2019 07:11:04 am

As mentioned in the article, the issues notated with the 2008 Legacy will be the same as with the 2008 Impreza

Dennis P.

4/22/2019 06:40:44 am

Being poorish, looking at a 2005 Imprezza Sport wagon with 180,000 miles for 2000 dollars. Wish me luck. Your site has given me some helpful things to look for with the hg issues.Know of any reliable subaru repair shops near Culpeper , Va.?

LIC Motorsports

4/22/2019 08:07:25 am

If you're "poorish" and not wanting to be nickled and dimed, it would be very hard to even contemplate the vehicle you're looking into. It will not only have head gasket issues, its coming on 4 major services - 180k (30k interval), 210k (timing component job), 210k (30k interval), and most likely needing head gaskets again - hence someone selling it. In addition, we typically only see these cars go about 225k ish miles if well maintained, so you're on the tail end of its longevity range but that's also reflective in the price point.

Cameron R

4/24/2019 07:04:20 pm

I am looking at an ‘06 Outback with 95k. HG’s have never been done. Is it safe to assume they need to be done now? How long will they last if repaired with your recommended aftermarket HG? Also, do you recommend anything else be done at the time of the HG repair? Should I make sure the heads are machined?What is the estimated cost for the HG repair?

This blog is amazing!

LIC Motorsports

4/25/2019 09:17:01 am

Guaranteed to have HG related work that will be needed at that mileage, in addition you would due your timing component job at the same time as well. We also always recommend replacement of the radiator at the same time if it hasn't already been replaced, as the last thing you want to have happen is have the radiator break (which they do at between 100-120k and/or about 10-12 ish years) which then causes the car to overheat, which then leads to warped heads, which = head gasket job repair again.

I have never replaced or heard of anyone having to replace our updated/upgraded gaskets we sell, reason being is they can't "go bad" like the ones Subaru sells, as they are a multi layer stainless (MLS) and there is nothing to go bad like the factory gaskets. Only reason for someone to have an issue after install would be from whomever performed the work. You ALWAYS have to resurface cylinder heads once they've been removed.

Cost varies based extent of work done, shop, where in the country you're located,etc.

Cameron R

4/25/2019 02:08:59 pm

Great, thanks for all the information.

All things the same, which would be a better purchase in your eyes. ‘06 Outback 2.5i N/A w/ 95k or ‘09 Outback XT w/ 140k?

Any maintenance to worry about with 140k Turbo ‘09 Outback?

LIC Motorsports

4/25/2019 02:30:07 pm

CAMERON R- Totally two different animals but I would say both are going to need extensive work, as the 09 OBXT will be doing a turbo and motor soon enough...unless someone just recently did those items.

Cameron R

4/25/2019 07:15:59 pm

New motor and turbo? Sounds expensive. More expensive then HG and rad?

Thanks for all the guidance.

LIC Motorsports

4/26/2019 07:45:15 am

Yes, everything about the turbo platform is more expensive.

Aaron H.

4/25/2019 09:24:46 pm

Great Info ‼️
Thank You 🙏🏻
Much Respect

LIC Motorsports

4/26/2019 07:45:57 am

Our pleasure, thanks for finding the article!

LYNND

4/27/2019 07:12:25 pm

My spouse is the original owner of a 2004 Outback.

Three things we did not know about despite taking the car to the dealer for sensor repairs and the like well into the 10 year mark:

1) The car apparently requires a specialty coolant conditioner to get it over the 100K mark (per other articles).
2) The radiator contains plastic that will eventually crack.
3) The head gaskets are prone to failure.

Just four years ago we had all the major seals, belts, radiator fan and water pump replaced. No mention was made of the condition of the head gaskets.

The car began to drip small amounts of oil into the driveway approximately 12 months ago. It was never copious enough to cause the car to go low on oil but about 2-3 months into this oil spotting, we took it to a shop (well reviewed on Yelp) to be inspected. (We were new to the area where we currently live and out of driving range of our usual 15-year mechanic.)

The shop owner ultimately charged $1,000 for a new axel to replace a leaking suspension boot. (One that had been replaced just three years prior by our old mechanic!) He then charged an additional $600 to replace a power steering pump, which he said had bubbling in the fluid.

As for the diagnosis we came in search of, he said the oil was leaking around a "gasket". He said the repair was prohibitive and that as a stopgap he could apply a silicone seal that may have to be redone in another 6-12 months.

My spouse is not car savvy and came away with the interaction with the understanding that the point of the sealant was to reduce the chance the car would lose oil. No mention was made of what was actually at stake – that oil could mix with coolant as the head gaskets were failing. No warning was made that the symptom would be an overheat condition or that it could lead to a breakdown on the side of the road if left as is.

Fast forward 10 months and there were spots of oil again appearing on the driveway. About a month after that, he topped off a low coolant reservoir. Two weeks later, without warning, the car overheated and died at a stop just a few yards away from an auto mechanic.

The car restarted the next morning for purposes of being moved off the side of the road to the shop. The radiator was said to be cracked and the car engine did not pass a chemical leak test. The shop owner was unsure if the head gaskets were to blame but based on the burned oil smell he said the only thing he was willing to do was to install a rebuilt engine for almost $5K. He said he would not warranty a head gasket replacement, valve work and the radiator if we insisted on those repairs.

The shop where the gasket was originally sealed was contacted and remembered performing the "repair" almost 12 months prior. The shop owner said it wasn't worth repairing the car due to cost of the repair relative to the value.

Problem is, we had 170K on it and expected to get 70K more before replacing the car so the funds to go out car shopping just aren't there at the moment. Upon pulling the paperwork for the original "gasket" repair (silicone), I now appreciate that we weren't just dealing with an oil leak but a potential for the coolant to intermix and create engine knock, bearing destruction and severe, inevitable overheating.

Question: Would it be in any way worthwhile to pursue this sham gasket repair in small claims recourse (CA) for the fact that my spouse was not warned that acceptance of this temporary fix could set the stage for irreversible engine failure?

It took a Google search after the fact for us to appreciate, as 15-year owners of the car, that this model year is known for having head gasket failures. None of our mechanics along the line warned that this was in store. We have spent far more over the past five years than the car is worth trying to maintain it (to include A/C repairs, numerous suspension repairs, etc).

Although there was oil spotting on the driveway and the coolant was found to be low two weeks before the failure, the engine was NOT knocking or having performance problems before the overheat situation occurred.

Q: Would we be taking as much of a gamble as the shop owner claims to simply replace the head gasket, radiator and valves and hope there is nothing further wrong? Or should we assume that because the gasket had begun weeping a year prior that the coolant has had too much time to intermix with the oil and/or that the car overheat has created more damage than we can appreciate (even though it started back up without issue the next day)?

In summary, is it time to go shopping for a new car or is this reparable short of entirely rebuilding the engine?

LIC Motorsports

4/29/2019 07:51:25 am

Correct all non turbo Subaru's up until 2008/2009 take a coolant conditioner to get you past the 100k mark.

As far as small claims, I'm not a lawyer and can't speak to that but based on what they did and how long it lasted, seems like the work done did exactly as they suggested it would do - last about 6-12 months. Seems to me this was explained as a bandaid to help you guys along.

If this car was in my shop, I would only offer 1 of 2 things (based on what you've mentioned thus far)...Replacement engine (we use Subaru Reman Short Blocks) with all necessary gaskets, seals, and other components due at the same time - such as timing components, radiator, hoses, fluids, etc. Or to get a new/replacement vehicle.

Higher mileage vehicles will continue to cost you more money vs. new/lower mileage ones. They say on average, higher mileage cars - you can expect to spend approx $2k per year on maintenance/repair. I find this to be fairly spot on, although it's not always consistent year-to-year, when you break it down, its about right ($5k one year, $500 the next, $1k the following, etc.).

Lisa

5/3/2019 10:41:44 am

Hi good article but leaving me confused. You mention the head gasket issues started in 1999 , but I have also read that Subaru started using a new composite on their head gaskets that caused this problem starting in 1997 on some models, but I don't know which models those were.

You also write that Subaru did not revise the head gaskets on their older models , is that a good thing or a bad thing for those older cars you mention? I am specifically interested in the older Subaru Impreza or Subaru Legacy model cars of the 1990s or early 2000s . I want the wagon versions not the crossover Outbacks. The problems I have read to watch out for are bad oil seals and oil leaks.

The 1.8 engines involved in Impreza of the 1990s is non interference and I was also wondering if that makes it stronger and less prone to head gasket issues since I assume it will have less vibration ?

What years and engines are best for the older Subaru Impreza (not the Outback version ) and the older Subaru Legacy ( not the Outback version) ? Thanks

LIC Motorsports

5/3/2019 11:05:52 am

The head gasket issues started with the 2.5L DOHC motors. This started with 95 Legacy, 98 Impreza RS, and 98 Forester...those DOHC motors got a redesign through Subaru and should of been fixed by now but some are still out there for sure. If/when you fix these, only the revised/updated gaskets are available.

In 1999 the 2.5L SOHC motor was introduced and those as well had the same head gasket issues and Subaru never redesigned the gaskets (even to this day, if you go to the dealer for HG repair - they install the same flawed gaskets).

Early 90's vehicles, i.e. 1.8L and 2.2L motors are good but have massive oil leak issues typically.

DAVID FORSLUND

5/16/2019 12:51:58 pm

This saturday I'm going to look at a 2009 Subaru Outback 2.0d that has 170000 miles on it. I haven't seen the 2.0d liter diesel turbo talked about here. Does it have the same problems as all the other engines?

PS. I love this blog! Very helpful and interesting reads!

LIC Motorsports

5/16/2019 12:54:44 pm

Unfortunately I couldn't advise on this, as we don't have those cars over here in the USA - so I have no means of comparing part numbers and/or actual part(s)

DAVID FORSLUND

5/16/2019 12:58:48 pm

Ok! Thank you!

DAVID FORSLUND

5/16/2019 01:07:24 pm

Your comment helped me! I searched for the engine, got the part number and it seems its a MLS HG :)

LIC Motorsports

5/16/2019 01:13:55 pm

DAVID FORSLUND- I would of assumed so and good to hear they are. I just never have heard or hear anything bad about the 2.0d's. I only wish we had them here!

Tami

5/19/2019 09:14:33 pm

Back in November 2017, I was given a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport -- one owner before me -- with 38,000 miles on it. I flew out to New Jersey and drove it back to Michigan. Before I got it, it had been gone over by a mechanic but shortly after I got on the Jersey Turnpike, the Check Engine light came on. It was the O2 sensor. I was told I could still drive it. Last November, I noticed a strong smell like burning sugar and opened the hood to find green coolant pooling up on top of the radiator. There were never any puddles on the ground, it just seemed to happen when I drove it. I got the radiator and thermostat replaced and haven't seen any more leaks but a few months later, the smell is still there, and I went into my oil change station where they checked the oil and said it was fine but the coolant reservoir was dry. I've been keeping coolant in the car and refreshing it whenever it gets low. Still no leaks but still getting that smell. Just the other day, I had them check the oil again and it was okay. But one mechanic said to me it was a cracked head gasket. I watch my thermostat like a hawk but it never gets to halfway up the gauge. The check engine light came back on and AutoZone said it's the O2 sensor again (they said you can drive a while on that before it becomes a problem). I've now got 41,200 miles on the car. I am disabled and I need a car to get around, even if it's just in-town. I was told I could drive it long distances as long as I watch the thermostat and if it starts to overheat, pull over and turn it off and wait 30 minutes before going again. I do not have the money to put into major repairs right now (I've already had to replace tires, which was not cheap). A dealership quoted me around $2400. I'm trying to find a reliable local mechanic who can do it for cheaper. What other advice can you give me to help me extend the car's life until I can get the money together for the repairs? The car is in great shape, otherwise.

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 09:21:37 am

Couldn't say totally what you got going on from a distance like this but the fact you ran low on coolant often has a damaging effect (even if you didn't notice the gauge go into the red), you can be assured to have HG issues in time regardless (either from broken radiator and/or just because of the faulty designed gaskets), as you're experiencing symptoms currently. In addition, its often found that 02 sensors consistently going out is another sign of HG issues, which in turn will take out the catalytic converter(s) as well - which is extremely costly.

$2400 is fairly cheap even considering your location and likely would not be the actual total once completed - that's just for HG replacement starting price and at your mileage you would be due for other items, such as timing components, cylinder head resurfacing, etc. Keep in mind, the dealership will NOT use upgraded gaskets and will result in needing to do the service again at some point.

5/20/2019 08:23:49 am

I'v owned 4 Subs dating back a GL wagon in the 80s, had both my kids in them at one point, and have seen a hundred things happen working on them. I gotta say this guy and this thread - he hits it out of the park as to how those motors perform over time and mileage. Best advice thread I've ever read.

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 09:14:14 am

Appreciate you taking the time to comment!

Josh Golden

5/20/2019 03:21:50 pm

Hi, I am looking at purchasing my first Subaru and have narrowed down to Legacy models from 2010-2012. These model engines seem to be out of range for the head gasket issue and the class action lawsuit. Are there any other serious issues that the Legacy in the 10-12 date range have that I should be worried about or are there other engines that are far more reliable that I should consider? Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 09:12:43 am

Although these cars you've listed have updated/upgraded MLS gaskets - we have been seeing a bunch of these still needing HG repair work, not because of the film, but due to inadequate cooling. We have yet to see any issues with any 2015+ models

Josh Golden

5/21/2019 10:23:44 am

I've seen some info in this thread about the 3.6L engine. Is that a safer bet or does that engine have a trade off that has a different issue that is common and something I would want to avoid.

Gretchen L Skypeck

8/6/2020 07:50:51 pm

So you're saying 2015+ models are in the clear for head gasket issues, even past 100k miles? What about the coolant issue?
We have been researching Subarus as of late- seems there are two groups of owners- love 'em or leave 'em!
Thanks for this site!!

LIC Motorsports

5/21/2019 11:29:31 am

JOSH GOLDEN- As mentioned previously on here...I own a Tribeca (3.6L) myself - the 3.6L motor is one of the best motors Subaru made, its a shame its now been discontinued. As far as safer bet, they're a more robust engine and tend to last longer (which I believe has to do with the increased motor oil capacity, 7qts vs 2.5L at 4.5 qts) but they get way worse gas mileage, as you would be lucky if you got 18-20 mpg for mixed use driving and these do require more costly services (again more oil, more spark plugs, etc.) and as with any older car, leaking rubber gaskets and hoses tend to be a more complicated and costly job due to the design/complexity of the engine....one added bonus is no timing belt (its a chain and has no pre-planned service interval).

Josh

5/30/2019 03:50:14 pm

I'm still on the hunt and I recently have read a little bit about the ghost walking issue with 05-09 Outbacks. Have you had any experience with this issue or heard of it. If so, I would like to know how common or cautious I should be about this issue. Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

5/30/2019 03:53:29 pm

Never had anyone complain of this, let alone ever experienced this personally in the snow.

Josh

6/5/2019 05:05:08 pm

You have been a wealth of information. So I have some more for you. I've been looking at an 08 Legacy. Non Turbo. It has the head gaskets and timing belt done and I am wondering if there is anything to watch out for. Also it's a manual. It has 160K on it and the clutch has been replaced once already. The owner says this one is about 70%. Do the clutches in these models tend to go out very often and if so what kind of cost am I looking at? Also wondering if you have heard of the site CarComplaints? I've been doing a lot of research on there and wondering how much stock I should put into them? They information says that based off of cost of problems and when they tend to happen, the 09 Legacy is the worst. This kind of stopped me from looking into the 09's any further. Again, thanks for all your info. You have been a great help for a newbie of the Subie.

LIC Motorsports

6/6/2019 08:17:43 am

160k is getting up into the high mileage range for a Subaru.
Never heard of the website you list, nor do I go looking around for stuff like that either though - so me not knowing doesn't mean a whole lot. In regards to 09's, zero difference from a 05/06/07/08/09 - its the same engine and same car more or less. Unfortunately nobody can give you a % on the clutch like that, its just not possible. It's either new or its used and is still functioning decent but can't give a "70%"...just not possible. Clutch components only wear by the individual whom uses it, they don't wear themselves. So no, they don't have any inherent issue(s) but for sure some folks aren't the best when it comes to driving a manual.

Randy

6/10/2019 07:05:50 pm

Purchased a 2009 legacy 2.5i special edition in July 2018 with 127,000. Now has 133,000 miles on it. Head gasket has never been done but there is some weeping. How long do I have before it MUST be replaced and about how much will this cost? Trying to determine if it's worth getting done.

LIC Motorsports

6/11/2019 04:15:23 pm

By the time you have the weep, its time to fix it. Pricing really depends on where you're located and parts used and how thorough of a job the shop does. I talk to folks all over the country and to do this job properly with all proper gaskets, seals, fluids, and machine shop work - runs at min $2500-$3k for the HG service.

Cara

6/12/2019 08:46:11 pm

I am looking at a 2011 subaru impreza and a 2013, december impreza...car fax says 2014 but vehicle sold in dec 2013. I formerly owned a forester but it didn't last because of a car fire. Wanting to know what are some of the cons with these two cars? It seems what ive been reading is head gaskets replaced at around 100,000 miles. The 2011 has 95,800 miles and 2013 at 91,850 miles.
the 2013 had a recall but the dealership did say they will replace the brake lamp switch.
Trying to find out if i should also purchase a warranty since dealership only offers warranty for first 60 days i believe.

LIC Motorsports

6/13/2019 07:59:03 am

I wouldn't recommend either to be honest, as the 2011 you're aware of issues based on this article.

And as mentioned in another post: Although the FA/FB motors do NOT suffer from head gasket issues as mentioned in this article - do know that the 11-13's (specific models) were part of a class action lawsuit due to massive motor oil consumption issues. https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

We have seen issues all the way up to model year 2014 and highly recommend only 15+ models (which we have seen no issues with to date).

Cara

6/13/2019 08:22:12 am

Ok, thanks. Does the motor oil consumption mean that there have been many leaks due to this problem? What are the FA/FB motors? Can you please explain further? Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

6/13/2019 08:28:43 am

CARA- the older cars with head gasket issues as mentioned in this article are EJ motors (its the type of motor), the new generation is either and FA or FB depending on model. I was mentioning that the older 2011 your were interested, which is the older EJ motor with head gasket issues like mentioned in this article. The newer generation FA/FB also have issues, which is why I provided that link to give you insight into those issues they have.

The 11-13's and even 14's have major oil burning issues, and Subaru was sued over it (that link I provided). We recommend 2015+ to avoid any of these scenarios

Matt

6/15/2019 04:06:16 pm

Just bought a 2011 Outback with about 140K miles.

After a couple weeks driving, we got the overheat icon. Then it was good for a couple days, and now again. Looked in at the coolant and there is salt marks around and under the tank.

Is this going to almost certainly be a head gasket issue, or could it be just a coolant leak?

LIC Motorsports

6/17/2019 08:08:24 am

I would recommend getting it checked out and having the cooling system tested...you're explaining classic overheating symptoms = head gasket repair will be necessary.

Seth

6/20/2019 11:32:34 am

My dad just gave me his old 06 Outback LL Bean Edition. It's pretty high mileage (276k) but still runs and drives fantastic! However, I've started noticing oil spots wherever I park, and I've been going through about a quart of oil a month replacing lost oil. From what I've read on here, it seems that it's most likely either from the oil pan gasket or oil cooler gasket. These are both mostly simple repairs I could do at home, but my question is this: Are either of these places more likely to be the culprit than the other, or would I be better off replacing both?

LIC Motorsports

6/20/2019 06:07:29 pm

Even if the valve cover gaskets are leaking, its not responsible for the 1 qt per month of oil. That's a ton of oil and its most certainly coming from internally in the motor (consuming it). I would recommend checking its rate of consumption, i.e. how many miles it goes before you need to add that quart. Normal is 1 qt per 3k miles. 1 qt of motor oil leaking out to the floor would cover approx a 10 ft circumference on the ground. You'd notice this amount of oil and the reason you don't is because its being consumed by the engine. I would do a compression/leakdown test before you spend a bunch of money on the car and track the amount of consumption, if its abnormal - hard to justify spending a ton of money on a car with a big underlining issue(s).

Lauren

6/29/2019 07:23:31 pm

Hi there my husband is very interested in buying a used Forester. The one he is looking at is a 2005 XT with 121,000 miles. They want 5250. Thoughts? From what I understand the turbo doesn't have the faulty HG issue but what other issues would I need to be concerned about around this mileage? What could I expect to spend in repairs and maintenance in the next few years?

LIC Motorsports

7/1/2019 07:33:45 am

Correct the turbo models don't have faulty gasket design but that doesn't mean you couldn't end up with a head gasket issue. At higher mileage like this, the typical items are always in play for future repairs: gaskets/seals, wheel bearings, suspension, and depending on how it has been taken care of and maintained the turbo and motor. They say on average higher mileage vehicles will cost the average person approx $2k in repairs yearly - now that may be a $4k job now and its good for a year or two, or it can nickel and dime you constantly. Just varies but I see the 100k+ miles cars hold true to this figure

Seamus

7/4/2019 05:23:25 pm

I'm currently considering 3 options:
'05 Forester XS for $4500 with 128k miles. Owner was a mechanic at a Subaru specialty shop and just did a complete engine re-seal (with Six Star gaskets) and swapped the transmission for one with 50k miles. New tires. This car is about 60 miles away.

'03 Outback LLBean edition for $3k with 210k miles. No word on any maintenance done. By the sound of it though, he's pretty motivated to get it out of the way, so I think I could talk him down quite a bit. This car is only about a mile away from my house.

'03 Outback LLBean edition for $1500 with 158K miles. According to the ad it "Needs headgaskets", but even if I take it to get them done and it costs $2k, it's still $1k less than the Forester and has more power and, by the sounds of it, the H6 is less likely to have head gasket failures again. This car is almost 70 miles away.

LIC Motorsports

7/8/2019 07:23:25 am

The 05 Forester XS sounds the best in this scenario.

Greg

7/5/2019 08:16:07 pm

I am looking at 2006 Subaru Forester. It has 70k on it and it has no oil on the dipstick and it is leaking from underneath. Did not see any coolant in the reservoir and unsure if conditioner was used in coolant. Would this be a sign of head gasket failure?

LIC Motorsports

7/8/2019 07:26:02 am

With what you're explaining, I'd run away from this car. It showing no oil means its at min 1.5 qts low on motor oil - which is at min 30% of the motor oil missing, this damages engines if driven like this and it's likely its even lower than that and was driven like that.

Tom

7/16/2019 05:59:47 am

Hi, I have a question about a coolant used in Subarus. I have a 2003 Forester and I'd like to flush the system and replace the coolant.I really want to go with the genuine Subaru coolant. I see two types, Blue Super coolant and green Long life coolant. Which one of these should be used on 2003 Non turbo Forester?
Thank you very much !

LIC Motorsports

7/16/2019 08:18:05 am

Your car would take the Long Life (green)

Tom

7/18/2019 11:34:45 am

Thank you!

Todd

7/16/2019 07:08:29 pm

Hi

I’m looking at a 2005 legacy 2.5i. It has 120,000 miles. Car seems to be in good shape as I drove it. Ive done my research and saw the head gasket issue on your site (thank you!). he is checking maintenance records from previous owner to see if the head gasket was done. Timing belt was done but not sure when. He’s asking 2500 can or about 1800 US. I think I can get him down to 2000 can. Would you stay away from this at that mileage even if the head gasket has been done?

Ps what exactly is weeping? How can I check for this if I go look at the car again to see if it’s an issue?

Thank you!

LIC Motorsports

7/17/2019 10:10:22 am

If the HG work has been done and is not leaking and seems like a good car that has been checked out by a professional - wouldn't seem like a car to shy away from. 120k although onto its later portion of motor life/health is still low enough to contemplate at the right price. You will want to check between the block and heads to see if the HG's have been replaced and for any leaks.

Todd

7/17/2019 01:35:54 pm

Thanks for the reply. The guy got back to me and can’t come up with any paperwork to show if the head gasket or timing belt was in fact done. He did offer to have his mechanic look at it with me there up on a hoist however. Is there an easily verifiable way to check if the head gasket has been done and what to look for? And is there anything else to look at on this particular model to look out for while it’s up on the hoist? Or should just steer clear which I’m suspecting I should....

LIC Motorsports

7/17/2019 01:40:54 pm

TODD- without paperwork, depending on how long it was done (assuming it was), could be challenging to see what is newer and what isn't. The car is a the perfect mileage we see folks sell them due to timing and HG work needed - so being skeptical makes sense if you ask me. In regards to other things to look for, just your typical wear/tear items: bushings, suspension components, brakes, tires, any other seepage such as transmission, etc.

Todd

7/17/2019 06:14:34 pm

Thanks for your reply. So basically there is t really a viable not too expensive way for a mechanic to tell me if the head gasket has been done, is this correct? If not I’m steering clear that’s not a risk anyone should take knowing the HG issue.....the cost of that is more than the cars worth

LIC Motorsports

7/18/2019 11:31:42 am

This is the issue with these year range cars and just because someone did the HG if they used the OEM ones, it will have the same again. Even some aftermarket "corrected gaskets" don't work good.

Tom

7/18/2019 11:46:23 am

Hi, would you be able to tell me what the code P0032 - Powertrain means? I have check engine light on and this pending code pulled. Underneath that there is HO2S Heater Control Circuit High (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
My 03 Forester 2.5L non turbo consumes coolant and it is starting to have a little rough idle. The thing is thermostat is not indicating any increased temperature and I don't notice any smoke, maybe a little when the engine is cold, but that seems normal. But I do have that "burned coolant sweet smell" when I park it in the garage.
I have a feeling I'm one of the "lucky" ones with HG issue. The car has 153k miles on it. I was hoping to get somewhere to 200-250k, not going to happen I guess.

LIC Motorsports

7/23/2019 08:51:37 am

P0032 code is a bad front air/fuel sensor. Based on your symptoms, sounds like you're having end stage HG issues.

Tom

7/23/2019 09:03:47 am

Thank you for the answer. That really sucks because so far there was really not much indicating it.The temperature never increased, the engine ran smooth. Occasionally I had to add some coolant.
Oh well, I really liked the car, but reading about these problems and how long they last, on many different models through the years, I don't think I'll get a Subaru next. I also hear about some transmission issues on newer models... I don't know.

Stephanie

8/7/2019 07:54:54 pm

Hello! I am wondering what kind of timeframe to expect head gasket issues to begin to present themselves. I am looking at a 2006 impreza, non turbo, with 142,000km on it. It has had the typical things looked it and the gaskets are not showing any symptoms now. I am wondering what the likelihood of this coming up I. The next 100,000km if maintenance is kept up with and the car is driven appropriately. Temp here is up to 30c in summer to - 25 or so in winter...

LIC Motorsports

8/8/2019 09:17:38 am

I would say its guaranteed that this will have the typical head gasket related issues based on its mileage. I will also note that cars that reside in those type of conditions you're explaining typically take longer to show the outwardly first signs of leakage - and so many folks miss interpret that as its "not an issue on my car".,,which tends to result in catastrophic failure.

Lauren

8/8/2019 01:32:19 pm

Hello there! I have a 2007 Subaru Outback and this week the red oil pressure light fluttered on with the check engine light coming on. I added oil bc it was low when I checked and was able to drive it home. Today it stalled out at a stop sign and wouldn't start again. My garage tells me the engine is done for. I called a Subaru garage and they are suggesting replacing the engine. My car has 153, 000 miles on it, is this a wise choice for my car or should I consider finding something else? Last year I replaced the catalytic converter and had new tires put on it, I'd hate to waste the investment I already have put in it. Thanks for any advice you can give me.

LIC Motorsports

8/9/2019 10:36:57 am

I see no reason as to why your mechanic would be wrong in regards to the engine. Without it in front of me, of course I couldn't say for certain but its a safe bet you've damaged it beyond repair and needs replacement. Anytime the oil pressure light turns on, it means its under 3 psi - which is catastrophic.

In regards to replacement or repairing your car, its a financial call - all older cars will require more work than a new one. Even if you fix the engine stuff, other stuff will come up due to the high mileage...its just part of owning an aging vehicle.

Kris

8/9/2019 10:45:44 am

Just purchased an '04 Impreza 2.5i with 86k miles and discovered the head gasket needs to be replaced. We paid $4k for the car and believe we can have the repair done for $1,500-$1,600.

Is it worth it? If no, do you have any recommendations?

LIC Motorsports

8/10/2019 04:04:26 pm

I have yet to see anyone perform this repair for the dollar amount, as at that time you will also need new timing components (done complete with water pump, tensioner, idlers, etc.)...in addition, be sure to have new valve seals installed when you have the cylinder heads resurfaced (also a must when doing this job). The average price I see this job done for across the country is double the number you're suggesting.

Kris Ahlstrom

8/11/2019 11:35:49 am

Thanks, I appreciate you candor and expertise. It sounds like this car needs to find a new home.

B Perry

8/12/2019 06:33:00 pm

We're looking at a 2018 Subaru Forester with about 20,500 miles on it. It was a lease vehicle in NC. Looking it over my husband checked the tailpipe among other things and it had black, slightly oily residue in it but the exhaust had no color when we revved the engine. Otherwise it seems in good shape and is still under warranty for another 39,490 miles for the drivetrain and 15,490 miles on the basic warranty. We have not had our mechanic check it over yet. Should we be concerned? Could it be burning oil? Will the warranty transfer to us and cover possible problems?

LIC Motorsports

8/13/2019 07:36:17 am

The newer models tend to burn more oil, we see this constantly - in fact, if you look at the "owners manual", they now claim 1qt of oil per 1,200 miles is "normal and acceptable". Which is complete nonsense. On the older generation models, it was 1qt per 3,750 miles. It crazy and its troubling if you ask me. The issue is they are extending oil maintenance drain intervals and now using 0w20 motor oil (which is super thin oil, which tends to breakdown sooner and burn quicker). Yes the warranty transfers over, assuming you are talking about manufacture warranty of 3/36 motor and 5/60 drivetrain. But if the car is in the parameters of that crazy 1qt and over 1,200 miles, they won't do anything for you as its "within spec".

B Perry

8/15/2019 06:04:56 pm

Thanks for your reply. I have seen on Consumer Reports that some of the recent Foresters burn oil but many of them don't. I think we'll keep looking and also check the tailpipe of anything that looks good otherwise. I am assuming that you don't see the head gasket issues with 2016+ because they don't have the higher miles on them yet. I'm paying attention to your advice about transmission fluid too and coolant. A lot to pay attention to after my old Honda Fit!

Kyle

8/18/2019 05:07:00 am

I have a 4 cyl, 2011 Outback, 100k miles. Going through the process of replacing the HG on it now. After reading many of your responses, it appears you have alluded to the fact the overheating problems with post-2009 models is not with the head gasket design but caused by an overall poor cooling system. Are there any measures I can take to help improve the cooling system in order to mitigate the risk of this happening again?

LIC Motorsports

8/19/2019 09:03:15 am

Nothing available that I'm aware and as mentioned, we have done many 2010-2012 Outback HG's already - convinced its a lack of proper cooling. Just as of recently, we're now seeing issues on the 2018+ turbo model cars not being able to stay cool enough as well.

Kyle

8/19/2019 02:44:14 pm

With nothing then to really solve the root problem of a poor cooling system, then are many of these fixed HG vehicles just ticking time bombs to have it happen again? How often do you see ones with replaced HG's come back?

LIC Motorsports

8/19/2019 02:50:31 pm

KYLE - we've only seen the 10-12's be problematic in the last year or so, we really don't have enough run time to see how long they'll last. But I would assume they will have issues again, as nothing has been corrected to stop the issue at hand

Kyle

8/19/2019 02:58:49 pm

Thats good to know. Thank you so much for all your help! I really appreciate it.

LIC Motorsports

8/19/2019 03:00:04 pm

you bet!

Stan Wolken

8/24/2019 04:21:53 pm

I purchased a 2019 Subaru Crosstrack AWD -what are any weaknesses I should watch for? Do the headgaskets have a weakness? Thanks

LIC Motorsports

8/26/2019 08:13:27 am

They're too new to know if anything exists but with that being said, from what we have see, the 15+ models have all been decent. Just make sure you're on top of your servicing.

B Perry

8/26/2019 02:35:32 pm

OK, now we've found a 2017 Forester with less than 11,000 miles, leased, one owner, from PA, clean CARFAX, slight black dry residue in tailpipe, Certified Pre-Owned so we'd get 100,000 mile warranty on powertrain from Subaru. Would get mechanic to check it out. How do you tell if it is burning oil besides checking the tailpipe? Any other questions we should ask?

LIC Motorsports

8/27/2019 10:14:45 am

haven't seen any issues with the 15+ Forester's and being it was leased, it's likely only had 1 oil change, which is kind of a bummer.

Can't tell if it's burning just by looking at the tailpipe - really no good way to be honest, other than records of it burning/consuming.

RainierGal

8/30/2019 06:53:59 am

Learned lots from this blog thread. I have a 2009 Forester (bought new) with 75,000 miles on it and at my last 'free' multipoint inspection the dealer service shop told me I had leaking oil and the only solution was to pull the engine and replace all of the seals and it was a $1,500 job estimate. I do have oil leaking, not quickly, but the droplets on the garage floor are the proof. I have read that Subaru extended the warranty on some models to 80,000 miles because of the head gasket issue. Is that true? They sure didn't mention it. Am I a candidate for that and if so, how do I find out? I understand that the dealer repair job is unlikely to really resolve the problem and would just be a bandaid likely using the same faulty materials.

LIC Motorsports

8/30/2019 07:37:52 am

This dollar figure they mention, likley does NOT include the head gasket work - as I have yet to find anyone in the country to be able to do it that cheap - and if they are, they're not doing it properly. And yes, if it did include HG's, it would be the same design flawed ones that are in it currently.

I believe the extended warranty repair was only on the Dual Over Head Cam (DOHC) engines, which were from 98-01. I don't ever recall anything about the SOHC engines (which is what you have).

RainierGal

8/30/2019 07:50:57 am

Thanks for quick response and even more education. Car has been pretty reliable so far but I sense an impending money pit and have never been thrilled with the road performance of the smaller engine. I just replaced the right front axle/boot, I know I have oil slowly leaking, the A/C randomly stops blowing cold air and instead just blows uncooled air but randomly works just fine the next day, I am probably due for some new spark plugs and a big servicing in the near future. May be time to go shopping...?

LIC Motorsports

8/30/2019 08:18:26 am

RAINIERGAL- Major servicing is every 30/30 (thats 30k miles or 30 months), then timing component job is 105/105 (every 105k miles and/or 105 months). You should of already had these services done, if not, you would need to include all this at time of motor being out...which will basically just cost you the cost of parts and a touch extra labor but timing job labor is free when doing the HG repair, as those parts (old ones) have to come off regardless to perform the work, you'd just have the added cost of the parts for that particular service.

Any vehicle that is 10 years or 100k miles or so, will require more work and have more issues then a new vehicle - nobody can argue that fact. Even with correction of HG's, will still have work that will be unrelated

LIC Motorsports

9/11/2019 05:19:34 pm

STEVE- hard to say, I'm someone who drives older cars myself and not someone whom ever has something brand new. From what I have seen, thus far but not enough run time I think has been put on them for long term, is the 2015+ models are doing much better these days...again, if issues are going to arise, its still like a couple years off before we see it. Issues I have notated so far is leaking CVT transmission cases and CVT internal issues.

B Perry

9/16/2019 09:47:36 am

Still wanting to find a used Subaru Forester that does not have issues. If we find one in which the tailpipe only has a small amount of dry ashy grey residue, is that any reassurance that it is not burning oil? Do you know what percentage of newer Subarus have oil consumption problems, esp. 2016 and 2018 base model or Premium?

LIC Motorsports

9/16/2019 09:52:09 am

Unfortunately looking at the tailpipe won't give you an indicator as to what car is or isn't good. Best thing to do is have it checked out by a mechanic well versed in Subarus. Oil consumption is sporadic but we see less issues on the 15+ models. Keep in mind that the 15+ models aren't high mileage as of yet and as such, we don't 100% know long term how these models will weather with time.

Ray

9/26/2019 08:54:49 am

What your opinion of a 2012 Outback 3.6R, with the 5EAT. Bought as a CPO with 30k on the odometer in 2014, coming up on 8 years old (orig in service Dec 2011) with 66k on the clock. - I probably over-maintain, oil/filter 6mo, which translates into 3000 mile intervals, drain/filled diffs twice since owned, as well as the trans when bought and again earlier this year. New pads/rotors, tires 2 years ago. - There is now some seepage at the front of the pan or more likely the cooler, that's spread down, but very minor. (Plan on a new gasket at the next oil change).

Only maintenance not done yet are the plugs, which I'm not looking forward to doing. (Big hands, not a lot of space).

Been debating whether to 'upgrade' to something newer, but that means CVT even with the 3.6Rs after 2014, or possibly the 2.4T engine and CVT for 2020. Other thoughts are keep in a few more year, and maybe add a bit of a lift with new shocks/struts, and maybe a android auto head-unit. (I have DVD Factory Nav).

What repairs or failures are likely with the '12 3.6R models?

Thanks

LIC Motorsports

9/26/2019 08:59:28 am

Over the course of the next 30-60k miles, you can expect: valve cover and timing cover leakage, more oil consumption as the motor wears, and suspension bits (shocks, struts, tophats) that will need to be addressed.

Other than that, that year/make/model is one of the better lasting Subarus on the market. I'm not a big fan of the CVT's personally but in due time, you'll have no choice with the newer models as its all they will have.

Patrick Benson

10/1/2019 06:42:13 am

I’ve been looking at a 2011 Impreza Outback Sport with 75k miles. It has the 2.5 liter engine and has been well maintained. Is this model susceptible to HG problems as well? Also looking at a 2014 Crosstrek as well.
Any advice for me? Thanks in advance.

LIC Motorsports

10/1/2019 08:08:10 am

as mentioned above, yes the 2011 is affected by the faulty head gasket design issues. The 2014 Crosstrek doesn't have this issue as that is the newer motor design. Although the FA/FB motors do NOT suffer from head gasket issues as mentioned in this article - do know that the 11-13's were part of a class action lawsuit due to massive motor oil consumption issues. https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

We have seen issues all the way up to model year 2014 and highly recommend only 15+ models (which we have seen no issues with to date).

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

10/1/2019 08:16:17 am

In addition to my head gasket problem, which has gotten exponentially worse after a Subaru dealership did my timing/drive belts at 94k. The CVT is garbage. Think Nissan/Jatco bad.

I can honestly say that I'd advise everybody to stay away from Subaru. True, a blanket statement but consider this... I have had continual, nagging problems with my CVT. Subaru tap-danced around every time I brought it in. They pulled crap on me like telling me I had to be at the dealership when the factory rep arrived but couldn't tell me an exact day or time. Of course this was not acceptable with my employer...

Ultimately, they did give an extended warranty on the transmission because I wasn't imagining things, there is an inherent problem with their CVTs in my era, whatever generation the 2011 Outback is.

I have had acquaintances with models as late as 2016 that are also having transmission issues...

Just stay away from them unless you've got the type of money that you can afford a daily driver and just use the Subaru for playtime.

LIC Motorsports

10/1/2019 08:20:17 am

Ironically I just had a 2013 Legacy in here yesterday with a bad CVT.

We have seen a handful of issues with the CVT's. The 1st gen ones 2010-2012 had torque converter issues (which Subaru refused to fix under warranty terms but they did update the torque converter, so if you fix your bad one...the new one is good). The 2nd gen one's I have only seen a handful of issues but they are known to be problematic as that's why Subaru extended the warranty on them from 5 year or 60k miles to 10 year or 100k miles.

Alex

10/3/2019 08:41:16 pm

We have a 2012 Outback 2.5i Limited with 88,000 miles on it that overheated on a road trip last week. Mechanic replaced thermostat, water pump, timing belt and hoses to the tune of $1800. We continued on our trip. 4 hours down the highway the car overheated again.Towed it into another repair shop and we are told the HG needs to be replaced (quoted $2500-2600), and that after he gets in, he may find the cylinder heads cracked, and if that's the case, it'd total about $5000 to repair (or possibly replace the engine). The first mechanic refunded the $1800 we paid him. We had to leave the car about 6 hours away at the repair shop and are trying to decide what the best course of action is. Do we drive all the way back and try to get it to a dealership to sell there in its current condition? Are they likely to pay enough to warrant our driving back up there, even with a busted head gasket and maybe needing a full engine replacement? The car is otherwise in good condition, with newish good tires. What do you suggest?

LIC Motorsports

10/4/2019 08:36:46 am

Once a Subaru has overheated, doing the t-stat, water pump, and timing won't correct the issue - as the cylinder heads will be warped. Your typical head gasket repair job starts at $2500-$3k and goes up from that.

If the car was still running, meaning starts and runs decent but just begins to overheat...you can likely feel comfortable just doing the head gasket repair work BUT the cylinder heads at min need resurfacing. Spending $3-5k on a 88k miles 2012 isn't too bad in the long run, as the car is still worth almost double that. If the car had double the mileage and not in good shape, I'd likely recommend otherwise but at this point, no matter how it goes, you wouldn't be upside down on the work vs value of the car.

Alex

10/4/2019 09:39:59 am

Thanks for the helpful info. We'll see what a dealership offers us for the car and then decide if we're better off to repair it ourselves, or to sell/trade. Otherwise being in good condition, how much is fair to deduct from the trade-in value for this car for this problem?

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

10/4/2019 08:52:05 am

My first instinct would be to factor in the torque converter/CVT problems too.

Elsewhere on the web, I have seen quite a few comments that make me lose confidence that the car will make it to 130 k without major work. I am literally driving with my head gasket issue until the car freezes up.

As an aside, who made the CVT transmissions for 2011 Subaru Outbacks? The answers from the head techs at a couple of dealerships did not impress me with their confidence in their answers. I first asked who made the transmissions. I then followed-up with the direct question of "Did Jatco make the transmission?" To which they both said they didn't know.

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

10/4/2019 09:06:45 am

I wanted to make a separate post about this...

I highly recommend that anybody dealing with the head gasket issue or transmission issues do two things:

First is to contact Subaru corporate. Although their representatives will claim they're not knowledgeable about it (or not say that it is common), the more calls they get, the more pressure will be on them to start compensating owners of these cars.

Subaru offered to make a partial payment equal to about one-third to one-fourth the cost of the job. I can be a bit of a force on the phone and I highly recommend you put as much into writing as possible. Try documenting all of your problems with bullet points.

Second is something else I have done... I have contacted the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB). Anything that could cause an engine or transmission failure could also cause an accident.

My transmission problems led to a stall out in reverse gear going up an incline. I reported that to NTSB and I later received a notice that my transmission warranty had been extended. Were they connected? I don't know. If enough people complain about something... The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I understand that this post may be deleted for liability reasons or whatever but... Subaru needs pressure to take care of their engineering and manufacturing issues.

LIC Motorsports

10/4/2019 09:48:35 am

ALEX- it varies by dealership and location

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

10/4/2019 10:17:22 am

What I would recommend, contact Subaru corporate first. The dealership is a different thing altogether. What you need is to press corporate, they have the authority to throw money around. The local dealership is not going to give you anything for free or at a big discount. That is not their job, it is the responsibility of the manufacturer, Subaru of America in Camden, New Jersey.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to get some independent quotes and do KBB check on your car's value for a cash private party sale. Before going into any negotiation. In Southern California, my car is not worth repair when I factor in the transmission issues. Part of their offer was to extend a credit to a new purchase but I didn't like driving a 2019 model Outback. The lane sensors were awful and didn't see much of an improved ride over my 2011 withhold shocks, struts and tires. Add on my distrust of the product...

Okay, off my soapbox. I feel like I'm hijacking this thread.

Also, there was an extended warranty issued for the electronic parking brake. Subaru has extended legacy and Outback models from 2010 to 2014 with the CVT or 5AT transmissions it is now 15 years with unlimited mileage. My letter is dated September of 2019.

Greg Gold

10/6/2019 03:56:33 am

After 140k miles, my 2012 2.5 Outback overheated and required about $4,500 in repairs. Warped heads, but no damage to the rest of the engine. I've kept up on all maintenance, but the potential transmission issue has me wondering have I reached the end of the line in terms of cost\value for future maintenance costs? The next big maintenance issue will suck all the value of the car, so am I better off getting something new at this point? Thanks for any information.

LIC Motorsports

10/7/2019 08:44:21 am

Definitely have validity to your statement and yes, another large bill will negate the value of what it can resale for...but on the flip side of things - it's still likely cheaper then selling it and buying a used "unknown vehicle" and the problems that can come with that. If you were wanting to swap out for a new car, then yes, the move makes sense as higher mileage cars will always be cost intrusive vs. a new car.

Michael Smith link

10/15/2019 07:54:11 pm

Considering my first Subaru, a 2017 6-cylinder Outback. Much of what I read here scared the heck out of me, whether it’s the head gasket issue or the CVT. Are these vehicles still worth it? If not, which are? Thank you.

LIC Motorsports

10/16/2019 07:54:00 am

They have a fair amount of issues but of the Subaru line up, they are the most robust engines (if properly taken care of) of them all...do know, the 6 cyl is no longer made, which when Subaru phases out an application in due time parts won't be available for it.

TIREDOFSUBARULIESANDDECEIT

10/16/2019 08:08:18 am

I have discovered that Rav4s have had a traditional 6-speed 4-cylinder automatic transmission up until 2018 and an AWD model appears to be available.

Might be worth a search, I have no idea if they offered a six.

I also have seen media people talk good of the Honda engine and trans on their CRV (I think it's that, the name escapes me). I was researching it and even Scotty Kilmer talked good of them for that one model "never having problems." 😁

I still worry about some of Honda's electrical issues that everybody I know has had. Solenoids and keyless entry are like a common theme with the brand.

With my 98 Outback, If the dealership messed up on servicing, corporate came through and either had things fixed or would cut me a check if I had to pay for it myself. Corporate does not have that attitude anymore. I think they see the writing on the wall that people like me are only wanting to get repairs to limp through to the end of life without any intent on buying another Subaru.

Giuliano Freeo

10/19/2019 08:33:14 am

Hey! Thanks so much for all this wonderful information. Do the 2010-13 Subaru Outbacks equipped with a manual transmission do any better job at keeping the engine cool? I like the vehicles, but obviously not into the major sudden repairs that are associated with the engines running consistently hot. Have my eye on a couple 3.6L's as well since they dont have the same issue, but their mileage isnt great. Although it is always worth it if youre going to get such an increase in durability. Thanks in advance!

LIC Motorsports

10/21/2019 08:00:30 am

The MT vs. AT has no bearing on how cool it keeps the engine unfortunately. Do know that the 2010-2014 models have the old transmission that have torque converter issues (Typically isolated to 2010-2012), the 3.6L's didnt get the CVT until 2015 model year...we really don't see a lot of issues with the 3.6L's, just as they get higher mileage, they tend to have a lot of oil leaks and lots of oil consumption. But if well taken care of, no reason not to get 200-250k fairly trouble free miles.

Giuliano Freeo

11/2/2019 03:39:46 pm

Thanks for the reply.. I went and looked at a 2011 Outback 2.5i MT with 110k on it.. It has been meticulously looked after with service records to prove, and also had the timing belt done along with new tires. He wants 7k for it, down from 7,500.. It is a great car, but after reading this forum, i get a lot of anxiety buying it for fear of this overheating issue happening to me. Is there any thing to say that a well taken care of outback will have a less of a chance of this happening? Is it preventable with great care or are is this unavoidable. Ive done extensive google searching and I just cant find this issue described as meticulously as it is here. I guess im just wondering, what percentage of these vehicles does this happen to? If it was 10% then i think this car is worth it as he has done everything to take care of it.. But if thats closer to 30-50% percent then obviously not working.. Spending money on a new car is stressful! Thanks so much!

Jorge

10/21/2019 10:38:48 am

Hi!
I see most (if not all) of the complaints about the Subarus' head gasket issue are related to 2.5 engines.
What about 2.0 engines? Are those on the "safe zone"?

I saw a 2010 Forester (2.0, manual transmission) that I liked but I'm hesitant. The car has 105.000 miles and I haven't seen it personally yet.

I'm not looking for a recommendation or endorsement about this car, but rather your opinion about Subaru's 2.0 engines and their head gaskets. Any ideas?
Thanks

LIC Motorsports

10/21/2019 10:51:00 am

I'm unaware of any USDM 2010 Forester with a 2.0L, as they are all 2.5L (non turbo or turbo). The 2.0L Forester XT's (turbo model) came out in 2014.

Jorge

10/21/2019 02:25:40 pm

OK. Thank you. In Latin America you can find non turbo 2.0 Foresters, At least the ones we get here in Colombia come from the Japan factory. Anyhow, have you found any frequent head gasket problems in any US made 2.0 engine from Subaru?

LIC Motorsports

10/21/2019 02:28:33 pm

JORGE- correct, those would be JDM models in your country. I have not seen any issues with 2.0L's (over here they have always been turbo models anyways).

Dude

10/27/2019 01:54:36 pm

Hi, what about forester 2.0 n/a 158hp dohc (2006-2008)?
They are common in europe.

LIC Motorsports

10/29/2019 03:48:54 pm

Honestly we don't have the JDM models here, couldn't speak about them with knowledge

Bob

10/29/2019 07:07:57 pm

Just drove a 2006 Forester with 67k miles on it.
Purchase price is $6000 (down from $7500)
Car was always garaged and typical drive was
15 to 20 miles. One owner and in excellent condition.did notice that the battery has a lot of green stuff around the battery connectors. Paperwork shows regular oil changes and tuneups. Will need front brake pads in 2k or so and has a loose heat shield. What is a reasonable price on those items along with potential repairs at this mileage and age.
Good deal or setting myself up for hefty repair bills.

LIC Motorsports

10/30/2019 07:56:27 am

I would suspect this vehicle, if it isn't already showing signs of head gasket issues, will suffer from it soon enough. Its right at the right time and age for that major repair...hard to say if its a "good deal" or not, even though its low mileage, it doesn't negate the negative issues that come with age and/or mileage of Subarus as they age (or any car for that matter). So yes, I do believe in short order, you will be due for repairs that will cost you the amount you'd potentially pay for the purchase of the car - this I can guarantee.

Bob

10/30/2019 08:30:04 am

With that said, would you recommend me paying the $130 for a Subaru dealer to do a pre-sale inspection and then negotiating a potential new price with the seller taking into account the required repairs or just walking away from this car. He mentioned that the reason he was selling on his own was he is purchasing a new Subaru and the trade in the dealership gave him was only approx. $2000.00. If a revised price could be agreed upon and the HG and timing belt was replaced by Subaru should that ease my mind.
Any thought would be greatly appreciated.
PS...this is a great site!

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

10/30/2019 08:47:02 am

[snarky but based on reality alert] Walk, no, run away from Subaru.

Signed,

Three-decade owner - Never again.

LIC Motorsports

10/30/2019 08:39:27 am

BOB- I would always recommend a Pre-Purchase Inspection on any vehicle, this is always a smart move. The timing belt should of been done on interval, which is 105k miles or 105 months (7.5 years or so), sounds like it wasn't done and yes you would want to do that with the head gasket service but do it complete (water pump, belt, tensioner, idlers, seals, etc.). Keep in mind valve cover gaskets are likely leaking at this time as well, would want to handle that at same time too.

Have dealer do head gaskets is not ideal, as they use the same faulty gaskets that cause the leaking in the first place, those gaskets from the dealer have never been revised...

And yes, everything has a price where it makes sense but a 13+ year old car, even though low mileage, $6,000-$7,500 is an astronomical price if nothing has been done on time (again, service is always done on mileage or time interval...30k miles or 30 months, 60k miles or 60 months, etc.) If these things haven't been done, I would shy away personally but that's not to say it will fall apart on you but vehicles tend to not last as long and require hefty repairs when they were not serviced properly.

Kevin

11/1/2019 08:10:33 pm

I have a 2014 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5L CVT. I am not a car mechanical person. I get my car serviced on a regular basis at Subaru. On 1/5/19, the dash lights were blinking like a Christmas tree. The car was over heating. Luckily I was close to a Subaru dealer. The radiator needed to be replaced due to a leak. It had 53.7K miles.

Yesterday, 10/31/19 (58K miles), I parked the park at the grocery store and when I come out, I see coolant all over the ground. I had the car towed to Subaru today. The customer service tech called me with an update that while the radiator replacement was under warranty, there seems to be a bigger issue to determine what caused the radiator to have multiple cracks 10 months later that needs more investigation by removing the engine and taking it apart. This will cost $3,000 for 20 hours of labor plus parts and if the engine is damaged, it may need to be replaced.

I asked about the cost to have the engine replaced instead tearing it down since she mentioned it may have to be replaced after they tear it apart. She paused and tossed out suggestions of a rebuilt engine that is less than $6,500 for a new engine but she said she would have to get back to me.

Since she could not explain what was causing the problem, I started Googling. I found out about the radiator and common head gasket issues in the 2.5 CVTs.

If it is $3,000 plus parts to fix this issue, does it make sense to just replace the engine upfront instead of tearing it down? While Googling, there are Subaru dealers that have new engines for sale, averaging $2,200-$2,400.

After reading online, does Subaru just replace the gasket with the same bad gasket or do they replace it with a better one? Thanks!

LIC Motorsports

11/4/2019 09:29:55 am

Your current issue is a result of the previous overheat. Anytime a Subaru overheats like that, its only a matter of time before the issue returns - typically always within a year.

I would not take the "tear it down and see" approach. Subaru does not offer complete engines (aka crate motors), so what you speak to of $2200-$2400 is just the short block and your cylinder heads would need to be reused (which after overheating them, they will need at min resurfacing and new valve seals). But they can be damaged as well and as such need to be checked. New cylinder heads, if you needed them, can cost in upwards of $5k+ alone.

Your Subaru doesn't have a faulty HG and the factory HG used is the correct one.

LIC Motorsports

11/4/2019 09:37:05 am

GIULIANO FREEO- We own that exact car and same issue happened to us and it was as well taken care of as anyone could do. I don't have a % of cars its happened to but we have done a handful at our shop alone. Really feel its a cooling flow issue

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

11/4/2019 09:59:58 am

Statistics aside, the boxer engine and Subaru design requires anyone buying a car that they expect to drive 100k to stay away from the double whammy Subaru presents us with... Bad CVTs and bad head gaskets. Manual transmissions may avoid the CVT issues but the torque converter doesn't seem to be any good either.

Subaru WAS a much better brand in the 90s and they had head gasket issues then too!

My 98OB is with its second owner and has 300k+ with minimal standard work. My 11OB has 97k on it now and has had CVT issues from month one and has exhaust going into my coolant as of 95k. I drive with an OBD tool that monitors temperature. I'll probably drive it until it conks out then buy a non-CVT Toyota... I kept meticulous care and can tell you, in detail, about every door ding. I take care of my stuff.

I have reported 3 issues to the NHTSA... The transmission, the emergency brake and, now, the head gasket issue. I suggest everybody report possibly dangerous conditions that might lead to a failure while driving. A freeway engine failure can lead to a fatal accident. Enough people complaining might force Subaru to compensate those who have already suffered losses and cover those who will deal with it.

LIC Motorsports

11/4/2019 10:19:01 am

The CVT's are a big issue. The 1st gen ones have bad torque converters . We have even new gen ones that are having major issues by 100k. Just had a 2015 Outback (CVT) in here with issues. We've had a handful of 14+ models with leaking from a seal at front of the transmission (inside the bell housing). Luckily we've caught those for our customers so they can get them warrantied/repaired by SOA. But in general, I foresee the CVT's not making it 200k+ like the old 4EAT/5EAT's did, which is a shame.

LIC Motorsports

11/8/2019 11:30:11 am

JAMES CRAIG ROSS - I say this daily. Cars are now made to be like cell phones. Every "x" amount of years, they are disposable and its the mentality of us as consumers driving that process.

Absolutely car manufactures know that parts are bad and leave them in circulation for costly repairs in future and for the repeat turnover of new "product".

We're on the same page with this thinking!

Giuliano Freeo

11/8/2019 12:14:25 pm

So i went and looked at the 2002 ll bean 3.0 outback. Its well cared for and looks in good condition. There was definitely some oil seeping out of the block at each bolt point. Hard to know how bad the leak is when only taking it for a test drive. I did look where the car had been parked and it had 3 spots that were about 2 inches in diameter that had happened over the last 3-4 days. He is asking 2700 for it. How do i know if the leak is coming from the oil pan or just the block seeping oil? If its just a slow oil weep, then probably not a bad buy. Thoughts on whether this is a good deal?
Many thanks!

LIC Motorsports

11/11/2019 08:23:52 am

That's a big oil leak and as such I would recommend having it checked out before you purchase something that is leaking that badly.

Jen

11/10/2019 07:55:17 am

I just want to say I have a 2014 Subaru Crosstrek XV, FB20, 300k miles both head gaskets are bad, oil in the coolant. My check engine light came on and the only code was cylinder miss fire. Bought a new engine only because it was easier, then having new head gaskets milled.

Jorg

11/11/2019 10:02:35 am

Hi Jen
Is that a 2.0 or 2.5 liter engine? Apparently most troubles appear on 2.5 US made engines...

LIC Motorsports

11/11/2019 03:15:19 pm

Anytime oil and coolant mix, you wouldn't be a candidate for just a "head gasket" repair job - so getting a new motor would be what was needed.

11/11/2019 05:59:24 pm

I'm looking at a 2009 Impreza 2.5i with 98k miles. I know the head gasket has not been replaced, but otherwise the vehicle has been well-maintained. Asking price is $4,500. Would you advise against it? Ideally I would buy this car and use it for a four-day drive next month.

LIC Motorsports

11/12/2019 08:49:35 am

That year/make/model will have its HG service and 105k service needed and at $4500 you can expect to pay the same for those 2 services as well. Hard to justify at a $9k expense but if you're in the market for a used car and can stomach that, pretty hard to find any vehicle under $10k these days. So perhaps it makes sense to you but for most it wouldn't as if you were to get in an accident and you just spent all that money - you'd be lucky to get even the purchase price back out of it. Just a tough one to have make financial sense in the long run.

James

11/13/2019 01:17:33 pm

I bought a brand new 2013 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual transmission. It didn't pass the oil consumption test so Subaru put in a new engine after I'd driven about 25,000 miles. It now has about 45,000 miles. I took it into the Subaru dealership yesterday because I noticed it was again burning oil quickly. They called me today and said it was the head gaskets. They told me they were able to get Subaru to cover the costs due to the circumstances, even though my new replaced engine is out of warranty (apparently only covered for 1 year / 12,000 miles). Would you recommend I just sell it once it's repaired? Although it has yet to cost me anything in repairs, two engines both with major issues under 25,000 miles each has blown my confidence in keeping this car for any length of time.

LIC Motorsports

11/13/2019 01:22:05 pm

Good to hear they've covered but back to your question...the issue is, they're not correcting anything (like when they replaced the engine for oil consumption, as that was related to low friction piston rings that didn't work out properly - that issue has been corrected now) but they'll merely be putting it back in working order and it will likely suffer the same fate again, as its not a HG issue but rather a cooling issue causing issues on that engine. We've been seeing more and more of it recently.

And correct, Subaru parts are 12/12 (12 month or 12k miles)

11/15/2019 01:04:51 am

Thinking about getting a 2005 Outback LL Bean with 171k miles on it for 3k. Owner told me the head gasket is leaking a little bit. Worth it? Since the vehicle is actually in San Francisco, may I also get a rough quote here for the job (EZ30 engine) pulse cam cover gasket, water pump and thermostat, etc. done at your place?

Thanks!

LIC Motorsports

11/15/2019 07:36:11 am

First and foremost - RUN. At that mileage and having a HG issue, you would be in upwards of 2x the cost they're looking to sell it for. When doing that job, you wouldn't only replace the water pump and t-stat, at the mileage you would need to do all the timing components - as you don't take off a stretched timing chain and reinstall that with 170k+ miles on it.

11/15/2019 12:39:42 pm

Thanks for the super fast reply!

After reading your blog I've decided to go with 6 cylinder only. Thank you! Very informative here!

After reviewing all comments above, basically any subie with more than 120k miles will only be good deal if costs almost nothing but here in the Bay Area they seem to be sold at more than 5-6k, even 15+ k if it's a newer model (2015+ 3.6R). *Sigh*

I'm actually willing to spend up to 10k but best candidates are things like 2015 Outback 2.5i with 100-120k on them. Would those newer models be better options? They do have CVTs on them which also concerns me.

LIC Motorsports

11/15/2019 12:43:31 pm

JW- 2015+ models are good but yes they do have CVT's which have been somewhat problematic. Do know that 6cyl models are now out of production and as such, they're retaining values and at some point though will be limited on parts in future

11/15/2019 11:31:52 pm

Hi so I own a 2002 WRX with 46k miles and noticed after an oil change that there was some white smoke that came out the exhaust but it quickly stopped. It smelled a bit sweet but more chemically than anything. I ignored it at first but then saw the coolant going down, I found one leak in one of the main radiator hoses and fixed that but it still seems to be leaking from somewhere else and dripping down near the oil filter off of the timing belt cover. Every now and then ill smell the exhaust and sometimes it will smell a bit sweet but not all the time. I immediately am thinking its the head gasket, but it seems so early for the head gasket to be going at 46k miles. From what I can see after an oil change there is no coolant in the oil and no oil in the coolant overflow. Not really sure where to go from here. I just ordered a block tester and I will see how that goes, but I would appreciate any sort of advice or ideas on what else I should do/look for.
Thanks in advance,
Mike

LIC Motorsports

11/18/2019 07:55:00 am

The turbo models are not problematic in regards to this article but that's not to say you couldn't have a HG issue - it just wouldn't be related to what you've read in this post. In order to know what's going on with yours, it would need to be diagnosed. If you've overheated the car, regardless you will likely need a HG service done (as it warps the cylinder heads).

Lou Illis link

11/24/2019 11:21:34 pm

I have a 2009 special edition legacy with 56 thousand miles. What do you suggest on pre maintenance tasks i can do now to prolong head caskets issues or oil leaks later?? Do I change antifreeze now as it is original??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

LIC Motorsports

11/25/2019 11:47:49 am

Your car is past due for the 105k service (which is 105k miles or 105 months) - in doing this service, the coolant is replaced. It's always best to do both the HG service and 105k together, as they intermingle in terms of work

Louis Illis

11/25/2019 12:13:48 pm

Im sorry hg servce means??

LIC Motorsports

11/25/2019 12:15:09 pm

LOUIS ILLIS- HG = Head Gasket

LIC Motorsports

11/27/2019 08:52:22 am

JOY GRITTON- The issue servicing "as recommended", as with any manufacture, they are selling the "Cost of Maintenance" with any vehicle, so when folks compare one vehicle to the next, they want to see them being on par or similar. This is when all the issues happened with Subaru - they chasing everyone else doing the bare minimum to get folks to just over 100k miles. If you only do the min they recommend, you can expect problems and is likely why your other vehicle is no longer financially feasible.

Every car (minus hybrids) need regular/normal motor oil drain intervals. Subaru will tell you 6k miles, don't do this. You'll get away with this for about 60-90k miles but you will also create a massive oil burning motor. We tend to see 4k being the magic number on these motors. The other crucial item is doing the 30k mile or 30 month intervals religiously....including the transmission. Subaru extended the warranty on the CVT transmissions because they advised folks its a "lifetime fluid", if it sounds to good to be true, it often is and there is not such thing as lifetime fluid on any vehicle. If its oil based, it breaks down. And furthermore, Subaru said lifetime, the manual said to change even sooner than previously (which they now say 24,855 miles vs 30k mlies), we still find the 30k miles to be fine but it needs to be done like clockwork.

Our customers who do the servicing 100% complete and not dealer min, often and easily make it that 200k mile mark. Which is about what these cars are optimally good for. Yes they make it further but the will be consuming lots of oil and other maintenance stuff adds up - like any higher mileage vehicle.

Lou Illis

11/27/2019 12:24:54 pm

Do you suggest tranny getting changed at dealer with genuine subaru fluid.Or go to an garage and maybe use valvoline tranny fluid?? Again my 2009 legacy has 56 thouand miles on it! Thanks

LIC Motorsports

12/2/2019 07:51:19 am

Your vehicle takes a very specific transmission fluid if its an automatic. Must be an ATF HP, if its a manual, yes you can use any 75w90 or 80/90

merle link

11/29/2019 06:42:27 pm

Looking at a 2007 Outback Sedan LLBean 3.0R 89,000 miles, 2 owners, wanting $9900 for it. What do you think of these it would be for my daughter who lives about 5 hours from me? Any issues with these ones?

LIC Motorsports

12/2/2019 07:55:17 am

same as mentioned before...tend to have lots of oil leaks, consume lots of oil, but motor is robust. Keep in mind, the 3.0L technically needs to run the highest octane fuel they offer in your area at the gas station. The motors were not designed to be run on low test fuel.

Jordan

11/30/2019 10:15:42 am

We've got an 08 Outback (42,000mi) non turbo. Just diagnosed by dealer with leaky passenger head gasket.
They want $2,500 to do both.
Would you pay the premium to have the dealer do the repair? and in any case, you mentioned a fixed/newer head gasket. Is that the one you sell, or do I request the dealership use that new part ? Thanks!

LIC Motorsports

12/2/2019 07:53:23 am

That service sounds like it doesn't include the timing components, you will need/want to have this done at the same time (as its over 10 years old). The dealer typically will not use non OEM gaskets (aftermarket corrected ones) and will only use the OEM ones (the bad ones).

Kevin Wood

12/2/2019 12:41:15 pm

If a Subaru has a slow weeping leak due to a possible head gasket failure, how many miles/years does the head gasket actually last with just a weep of oil before the oil leak increases or other issues related to a head gasket arise? Thanks,

LIC Motorsports

12/2/2019 12:53:47 pm

Nobody can properly explain that with true accuracy, as it could be 1 mile or 20,000 - as the environment its in plays a roll from when that "weep" actually presents itself.

Garry

12/8/2019 06:35:48 am

Looking at buying a 2010 Outback with the 2.0L Turbo Diesel. Do these engines present with head gasket problems or excessive oil usage issues?

LIC Motorsports

12/9/2019 08:08:04 am

We don't have this vehicle here in the USA - I couldn't speak to its trustworthiness and/or issues with them

Beth

12/10/2019 04:30:37 am

Would you buy a 2012 Legacy with 88000 miles? 6 cylinder engine. My 2005 has 228k miles and headed toward a second head gasket repair. I can't afford it. Time to switch to Honda or Toyota?

LIC Motorsports

12/10/2019 08:14:52 am

Never see too many issues, other than those notated already throughout my responses here on on the 6cyl models. The 2010-2012's do have some torque converter issues. But if you're looking for much further than 200-225k on a vehicle in general, Subaru just isn't it...not yet anyways.

Veeta

12/14/2019 07:36:02 am

Hi quick question I have a suburu Impreza 2013 and my head gaskets are leaking like crazy. I’ve already been through 2 drive belts. Is it worth fixing it? It will cost me $2500

LIC Motorsports

12/16/2019 09:54:28 am

A 2013 should NOT have this issue and I would really take a look and see why this has transpired. Unless you had a radiator break, t-stat fail, and car was overheated...no reason to being have a HG issue on that model year.

Seattle

12/17/2019 08:00:46 pm

I own a 2009 Legacy 2.5i with 127k miles, I am leaking coolant but can’t find the leak. I smell coolant coming from the engine bay when the car is warm but I don’t see any smoke from the exhaust and the car isn’t over heating. I also don’t see any signs of a coolant oil mix. Is it still likely to be a HG issue or am I missing some pinhole in the cooling system somewhere?

LIC Motorsports

12/18/2019 08:29:27 am

Hard to say from afar but your year/make/model would be subjected to the HG issues that these cars have. Also, if you haven't replaced the radiator, its possible it is weeping at the time section where the plastic endtanks meet the core of the radiator - this is why we always replace them when doing either the 150k service and/or HG work, as they notoriously fail between 100-120k miles

Seattle

12/18/2019 08:55:50 am

Thank you very much for the speedy response! I will definitely have to look a little closer at the radiator itself, let’s hope that’s all it is

T Cizzle

12/18/2019 10:27:53 am

I had a 1999 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS coupe that never had a HG issue. Replaced the timing belt and did a major tune up at 150k miles and sold the car at 190k, I still see it on the road 5 years later. I currently have an 05 Forester with 135k miles and runs like a top. Timing belt service and tune up at 120k. Last oil change was close to 3K ago. Oil down maybe 12% and coolant full and clean, 2 tiny spills filled the reservoir to the line.

On the other hand, my wife's 2010 Forester needed HGs right at 100K. Coolant was disappearing like mad and started to see some puss at the gasket area. Cost a fortune to fix. I hope my 05 isn't next. Great blog on the topic. I'm buying Toyotas for everyone next round.

LIC Motorsports

12/18/2019 10:35:18 am

1999 would of been a SOHC engine and had HG issues, even the 1998, which was a DOHC had HG issues but they released corrected gaskets for those early on in 2002.

We have done a handful of 2010-2012 Outback HG jobs here, even on our own vehicle we own (which is a 2012). Those cars have cooling issues it seems.

Your 2005 would be the same engine as the 1999 and as such, is subjected to the HG issues. If you live in a salty environment (ocean area or snowy area where they salt the roads), you typically don't get the warning of the external leaking early on - typically the salt seals up the underside and that leak goes internal and you get the mixing of fluids - which is catastrophic failure in those scenarios unfortunately.

TIREDOFSUBARULIESANDDECEIT

12/20/2019 09:48:21 am

I have consulted a law firm about the known issues with the head gasket and transmission on my Outback. But, because I've got the head gasket blown already and I need a working vehicle and I've got to wait, I am looking for ways to possibly extend the life and get a couple or a few more months out of my car.

I have ATP AT-205 in my garage more as a rubber preserver for things like CV boots, etc. I just went to there website,and a few independent sites as well, and it is mentioned as a minor head gasket rejuvenator.

In your experience, would this stuff possibly make anything even 1% better?

2011 Outback 2.5 CVT

LIC Motorsports

12/20/2019 01:45:06 pm

I wouldn't add any of the gasket sealer stuff to the system, all it does is clog up other items

Ron Iazolino

12/21/2019 04:57:24 pm

Thank you for your great and very detailed blog.
Wondering your opinion on which is the best year to purchase a Forester with 35,000 miles +/- 2016, 2017, or 2018 ?
Thank you

LIC Motorsports

12/26/2019 10:08:31 am

The newer, the better ;-)

Merle

12/22/2019 02:05:04 pm

How about a Impreza with the 2.0 motor? Any issues with the cars with this engine?

LIC Motorsports

12/26/2019 10:04:41 am

Non that I've seen

Kevin link

1/6/2020 06:39:56 pm

Looking at buying a 2012 Subaru with a 2.5 non-turbo engine and the Subaru dealer states the former owner traded the car and upon inspection, the head gaskets were replaced. The car has 85K miles. If the car overheated and the gaskets replaced, do you think there could have been more damage that will occur down the road? Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

1/7/2020 09:13:39 am

Depends on how the repair was performed. So many shops and dealer will do a quick job and not do it complete - if the cylinder heads were not resurfaced, you can count on more HG issues. I would have the cooling system tested to ensure no C0 is currently in the system (which is a sign of HG issues).

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

1/7/2020 09:29:29 am

Think of it this way, even if perfectly repaired, you're only going to get 80000 miles out of it before you can be sure to pay for another head gasket repair.

Add in the fact that you will need to do the water pump, drive belt and possible timing belt (unless it's got a chain) and that work could exacerbate a head gasket issue... As a consumer, not a service technician, I just don't see the cost of ownership as being worth it.

If I recall correctly, the transmissions were still bad in that year anyway and how many miles will you get out of that? How much do you want to pay for a car battle 50,000 miles before a major transmission service is necessary?

One thing I have done was to get a digital OBD temperature readout. I monitor it carefully...

Randy

1/14/2020 06:15:01 am

Hi , new here, So I am considering buying a 2019 or 2020 Subaru Forrester. I have searched and read through many blogs about Subaru. So my question is is there still a problem with head gaskets and air-conditioning problems on a new Forrester. And even though 2019 2020 is so new any problems I should be concerned about in the future. Your thoughts on the Forrester‘s would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Randy

LIC Motorsports

1/30/2020 07:49:27 am

These vehicles are just too new to know for certain if they will have any issues but nothing suggests that they will as of yet. So far, from what we've seen - they're great cars

Matthew

1/24/2020 05:50:53 am

I found an 2011 Impreza non turbo for 7200$ with 80k on the clock. So the only problem with those would be Oil consumption right? And also I have a co worker who had one, same year and his blew a head gasket at only 75k so would you stay far away from these or just do preventative maintenance to keep the heads from not folding.

LIC Motorsports

1/30/2020 07:47:30 am

I would highly recommend not going with that model year, as they are prone to massive oil consumption issues and part of a class action law suit

Bob

2/2/2020 02:15:39 pm

Glad I found your blog. I own a ‘13 Outback 2.5 with manual transmission that I bought new; now has 97,000 on it. During the last 5k miles or so, it has needed a quart of oil about every 250 to 400 Miles. Dealer service last fall could not find a reason. Yesterday dealer said, valve cover and timing cover are both leaking oil. I have yet to see any evidence of an oil leak on the ground. Repairs quoted at $1,200. I can buy a lot of oil for $1,200. How crucial is it to get these repairs if I am keeping a diligent eye (checking dipstick and coolant reservoir) on both oil and coolant levels? Thanks

LIC Motorsports

2/3/2020 07:58:36 am

A car consuming that amount of oil has major internal issues, no amount of oil leaks will cause that - hence you saying it hasn't even dripped to the ground yet. I wouldn't spend $0.01 on "fixing it how they're telling you", as it won't fix anything...the fix would be a motor replacement.

Bob

2/3/2020 09:49:22 am

Yikes! That is disturbing news. But it takes me back to what someone posted here earlier-- they are no longer considering a Subaru for their next vehicle!

Thanks. Generally, what kind of internal issues will cause that much oil consumption? Bad piston rings?

LIC Motorsports

2/3/2020 10:39:34 am

BOB- yes, most often its related to piston rings and/or cylinders out of round (or both). Rest assured, 1qt per 250-400 miles is a major issue. We advise that 1qt per 1k miles - you need to start making plans for corrective measures. And sure you can keep adding oil to it and you'll get by for a bit but its safe to say, it can't go on for very long like that.

Bob

2/3/2020 10:42:37 am

Thanks. You have given me better information than two trips to the dealer have given me.

LIC Motorsports

2/3/2020 10:44:55 am

Not a problem, happy to help.

Do know that the 11-13's were part of a class action lawsuit due to massive motor oil consumption issues. https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

We have seen issues all the way up to model year 2014 and highly recommend only 15+ models (which we have seen no issues with to date).

Bob

2/3/2020 11:17:34 am

Wow. Thanks for that class action link. I have owned the car since 12-31-2012 and they never notified me of the settlement or the class action. And at the local dealer Friday, when I inquired about getting the oil consumption problem fixed under warranty, they assured me that my warranty had expired, even though I have had the car less than 8 years and it has less than 100,000 miles--the terms of the extended warranty I got automatically under the class action settlement. So they lied to me about that, since my car, a 2013 Outback, is clearly included in that class action settlement. I just texted the service writer to point that out and request she schedule my warranty repairs...cannot wait to see what she says! But I am a litigation lawyer by profession so I am not going to let them off the hook.
I think I know how to make them honor the warranty!

LIC Motorsports

2/3/2020 11:22:27 am

I love Subarus but one thing they are the absolute worst at - is doing what's right. I can't tell you how many times we have had customers that have to "threaten to sue" in order to get them to act. Unfortunately it's more common than its not with them. The good news is, you being who you are, just need to do the legwork and send SOA a nice letter/email stating your intentions.

Bob

2/3/2020 11:26:31 am

That is good to know. But I can write a nastygram to their general counsel if need be. Hopefully the dealer with come through. We shall see.

Thanks again.

2/4/2020 11:09:14 am

I am a long ways from California, but love the dedication to Subaru you all have. Wondering if you know of any quality shops in Michigan to do the dreaded HG rebuild? Also, aside from the water pump, what would you recommend doing while the HG is being done?

LIC Motorsports

2/4/2020 11:25:56 am

I don't know of any shops personally in Michigan. We always recommend doing the full timing component job complete as well as replacement of the radiator + upper/lower hose and radiator cap (if it hasn't been done already)

John K

2/6/2020 02:04:25 pm

Thank you for all of the information, and for the matter-of-fact presentation -- this is a great thread.

I'm considering accelerated maintenance on my wife's '12 Legacy 2.5 sedan (now at 75k miles) in the interest of extending the life of the vehicle. With the marginal cooling on these cars (which appears to be the main culprit of head gasket problems with this vintage), would it be prudent to replace the radiator at this point? I'm about to do hoses, t-stat, and coolant.

I'm also performing oil analysis (Blackstone) when the oil is changed, and they are recommending extended oil change intervals based on the results; are you opposed to this?

LIC Motorsports

2/6/2020 02:10:44 pm

Anytime timing components are done (which is what you should be doing on your vehicle, as its due based on time interval - 105k miles or 105 months), its always best to do the radiator at the same time - as they habitually break between 100-120k ish miles (or 10-12 years). Issue is, if you don't catch it in time, you overheat and then have to do a costly head gaskets job. Its worth swapping it prior to that and while doing timing as its already removed from the car and is just the cost of the added part.

If you intend to keep the car, which it sounds like, its always best to service the vehicles sooner rather than later - extended drain intervals don't promote longevity...they promote consumption/burning, which in turn creates carbon build up, which diminishes efficiency and longevity.

John K

2/14/2020 05:58:31 pm

Has anyone considered the possibility that electrolytic corrosion in the cooling system is part of the HG and/or cooling problem in the later 2.5s? I'm almost wondering if a ground-strap cleaning/upgrade would do these cars good as they accumulate miles.

For those who are wondering what I am talking about, there is a good explanation here: https://www.mechanic.com.au/news/electrolytic-corrosion-in-radiators-demystified1/

LIC Motorsports

2/17/2020 09:26:10 am

This scenario or suggestion has plagued the Subaru community for going back some 20+ years and I have to see it being a viable culprit.

Dave Hendryx

2/24/2020 10:06:47 am

I have a 2012 Outback with 2.5L, H4. Car overheated throwing the top hose off the radiator. Like an idiot, I put the hose back on, filled up the coolant and drove off. Minutes later, it overheated again so I shut down immediately and had it towed. I then replaced the thermostat and coolant myself, ran for 5 minutes and noticed a drip under the engine so I towed to mechanic. Mechanic said it's the water pump (never replaced at 162K) but to be sure all is okay I should have him do the head gasket since it's a risk not to with all the parts he has to take off to access the pump. Are you in agreement? He wants $1234 for pump only or ~$3600 for everything including timing belt and pump. Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

2/24/2020 10:09:33 am

Once its overheated like that, you will need to do head gaskets. Be sure to replace all necessary parts while doing that work (radiator, hoses, cap, timing components, etc.)

Dave Hendryx

2/24/2020 11:59:53 am

Thank you for your response even though not what I wanted to hear!

DickieM

2/26/2020 01:33:15 pm

Thank you for this blog and insights! I am shopping for a used (2018-2019) Outback with under 10-15k miles.... So we see all the commercials about Subaru's 'lasting forever', only to come to discover this HG issue.... Am I asking for trouble if I end up with a 2019 Outback? I will be putting 25-30k miles per year on it, and would like to keep using the car for 5+ years. Are the 2019 Outbacks with 2.5i vulnerable to having HG issues? should I just start saving up for my 100k HG 'fund'?

LIC Motorsports

2/26/2020 03:29:02 pm

Subaru's of the 80's did "run forever" but they still use that catchphrase to this day even though if you get 200k out of your 4 cylinder newer generation - you've done good.

If you buy a 15k mileage vehicle and plan to do 25-30k per year for 5 years, you'll be tossing that car away in 5 years or completely rebuilding it (or soon enough will be).

Perhaps in future, as Toyota now owns more and more of Subaru, they will inherit the longevity of those vehicles but until then, they'll be roughly 200k vehicles if meticulously maintained.

JD Thomas

3/12/2020 08:48:04 pm

Hi - I'm considering a 2008 2.5i Limited Outback with 149K miles for $4800. Owner says new crankshaft, rod bearings, and piston rings. Also new head gaskets and timing belt. So although head gaskets and timing belt are done, the other new engine parts must be because something bad happened there. Would you consider this car at all, or run away? What if owner has paperwork for everything done at a reputable shop? Could this be a great deal with basically a new engine, or is it just a ticking time bomb? Thanks.

LIC Motorsports

3/13/2020 08:27:31 am

First and foremost, new crankshaft and bearings does not constitute a new motor - technically rebuilt - and I would certainly be skeptical as to why would someone go to that extent and not replace the whole short block (crank,rods, pistons, case). It really makes no sense doing it the way it was done as it clearly had a massive failure and in turn to reuse the block, pistons, and rods...mathematically doesn't add up and one can only guess this was done to save money.

I would also check to see what head gasket was used, physically get the part number, and my guess is its still the same faulty designed ones that will have a failure again someday.

It can't sit here and suggest if this is a good or bad buy but being as how it was done, I think being more skeptical vs not, certainly has more logic to it.

JD Thomas

3/13/2020 10:01:07 am

Thanks - really appreciate the feedback. It turns out the guy is very familiar with Subarus. The vehicle had low compression on cylinder #3 when he purchased it, and upon examination, piston #3 had a little piece broken off. So opened the block and had all the bearings and rings replaced, and also put in a new cylinder on #3. Heads needed to be resurfaced, and valves and valve seats were replaced.

As for the timing belt, he only replaced the belt, not the pulleys or water pump. I think water pumps are pretty robust, but is it that big deal that pulleys were not replaced? The guy even sent me a picture of the broken piston, so doesn't seem like he's trying to pull anything funny here.

LIC Motorsports

3/13/2020 10:08:10 am

JD THOMAS- you can't put in a new cylinder on a Subaru, its not possible. I assume you mean he changed #3 piston? If so, did he not replace #1 / #2 / #4 at the same time? If so, that makes very little sense. Piston's break from detonation (think sledgehammer hitting the top of the piston and forcing it back down when its not on the down stroke), sure it broke that one but others will be fatigued from that as well. To break a piston, means car was not running well for quite sometime.

Hydraulic tensioner, 3 idlers (pulleys), and water pump are the MOST important part of doing the timing service, not the belt. I have never seen a belt break as a result of the belt, they only break when a idler goes bad or tensioner fails (also has idler on it) and then jumps timing and breaks.

JD Thomas

3/13/2020 10:51:41 am

Right, I assume he meant piston. OK, yes I see it would be logical to replace all pistons as a set, so everything is in balance. And 10-4 on the pulleys actually being more important than the belt itself. Looks like he did the minimum necessary here, when he could have done much more to do it right. I think I'm going to pass here. Thanks so much for your advice and quick replies. Have a great weekend!

LIC Motorsports

3/13/2020 10:55:10 am

Not a problem, happy to lend a voice but by all means come to your own determination on what is or isn't worth it when it comes to buying a used vehicle. Have a good weekend as well.

Joshua

3/14/2020 04:25:20 pm

Hello, I'm looking at a 2016 Legacy. Is there a head gasket or timing belt issue I should be aware of with this year and model? Thanks

LIC Motorsports

3/16/2020 08:41:33 am

Like the article states, no. And I have yet to see any with issues as of yet.

Walter Leytham

3/18/2020 09:40:28 am

I have a 2010 Subaru Forester XT Limited which has a turbo. Are the turbo models affected by this? Or is it just none turbo vehicles?

LIC Motorsports

3/18/2020 09:42:51 am

Although the turbo models do not suffer from the issues mentioned in this article, it doesn't mean it can't still have head gasket related issues - but it won't be due to the faulty design.

Josh

3/25/2020 04:29:43 pm

Hi. I read that the 2010-14 generation 2.5 engine had cooling issues. Does the 3.6L engine from that same generation have the same cooling issues?

Thanks,
Josh

LIC Motorsports

3/25/2020 04:31:22 pm

Not that we've seen or experienced.

Merle

3/25/2020 06:14:41 pm

How about a 2016 Impreza 4 door sedan, 35K on it they are asking $11,900 for it?

LIC Motorsports

3/26/2020 09:25:05 am

I'm not sure what you're asking here. No that car does not have head gasket issues. Yes that's an ok price but still a tad bit expensive on a 4+ year old car that was new at only $18-$19k or so but at least its low mileage though. Be sure to service the transmission ASAP!

Rich P

3/26/2020 04:26:06 pm

Hello I have a 2004 outback with 2.5. 82k with external leak and knocking when cold start up. Considering a re manufactured engine but worried about longevity of auto transmission? Any thoughts. Rest of the car is in great condition.

LIC Motorsports

3/26/2020 04:33:03 pm

The noise depends on if its truly a "knock" or just "piston slap" which is normal for your model year/engine and you can easily tell if it only does it when cold and after it warms up it no longer does it. Subaru Reman short blocks are great, we use them often. The transmissions are very robust and should last trouble free for 180-200k+ miles (as long you as service it at min every 30k miles)

Rich P

3/26/2020 05:00:19 pm

Wow fastest reply ever. Thanks for the information. Noise or knock does go away within a minute or two. So piston slap is not a major concern? If that is the case I may just do head gaskets then and run my current block.

LIC Motorsports

3/26/2020 05:03:07 pm

If it goes away after it warms up, like you mention, its piston slap and not knock. "Knocking" doesn't go away with heat.

Jayne Wilson link

4/2/2020 08:17:37 pm

I bought a 2006 Subaru Outback. I visited this website in hopes for a few answers to my many questions. I found everything I was looking for. I also am a victim of this all to problematic issue if finding myself going down the interstate and all of a sudden bam! My car goes into complete shutdown mode, finding myself as I glance into my rear view mirror several 18 Wheelers approaching me as I sit slowly from 70 mph to 0 in seconds, as the on coming traffic approaches at a seriously dangerous speed. Watching your life unfold before your eyes , not knowing if you will live to tell this horrible story. Yet again this being at least 5-10 times in ‘6 months have happen to me in. Thankfully all but twice my granddaughter was in the car with me. I agree something needs to be addressed with this issue. It is as I find happening very frequent to a lot of Subaru owners. It was the head gasket leaking as I read others stories. But it took many breakdowns and near death experiences to find this out .Again someone needs to know what is going on and how Frequent this is happening. Thank you, Jayne Wilson

LIC Motorsports

4/3/2020 12:26:22 pm

SOA has known about this issue since at min 2002 when they made a revision head gasket for the older non-turbo DOHC motors. Trust me, they are well aware of what's going on with these cars.

Former Subaru Owner

4/3/2020 12:36:20 pm

Jayne,

Please report EVERY incident separately at the NHTSA website.

At this point, only the government will change Subaru's mind.

Josh

4/4/2020 09:34:26 am

We have a 2008 Outback 2.5i with 163K miles. It has hail damage and was paid for by my dad for $4000. Had it for almost a year and only had to replace the radiator. The person who sold it had the paper work for having the timing belt, water pump and head gaskets done at a local shop. Our daughter stalled the car while accelerating from first gear last week. The car then would not start. We jump started it and started hearing a whapping noise. Our mobile mechanic came out and said it threw a rod. The mechanic and my dad said this was highly unusual for a Subaru (throwing a rod while popping the clutch). A local machine shop ballparked rebuilding the engine at $2900. My dad says a rebuild with proper maintenance should go another 150K to 200K miles. We are not sure if it's worth it to do the rebuild or walk away from it and purchase something different. Here are a couple other options we are considering.

2016 Legacy 2.5i with 68000 miles for $10,995. Worried about the CVT and if it hasn't been serviced then is it too late for it's first transmission servicing.

2012 Legacy 3.6R Limited with 82,000 miles for $9500. It doesn't appear to have CVT. But it has the temp light instead of a gauge and we're worried about reliable over heating warnings.

I've read your blog over a few times and value your knowledge and expertise. What thoughts do you have considering all the factors. Thanks

LIC Motorsports

4/6/2020 08:18:58 am

Throwing a rod is not a repairable option for the motor but if you're talking about a rod bearing, yes that will make a clacking noise and move with RPM's. This is a result of lack of oil, its very common on Subarus to be honest and typically is due to extended drain intervals and/or car is consuming oil and it ran low (typically takes approx 1.5-2 qts to have happen). 4 cylinder 2.5L (non turbo) Subarus typical mileage range is approx 200-250k, it is highly unlikely to make it the 160k + 150-200k more even with a rebuild. Only way to secure that is a new motor and cylinder heads - might as well buy a lower mileage car at that point.

Personally I would go with the 2012 3.6. And correct, it does NOT have a CVT on that model year, the 3.6 Outback didn't get the CVT until 2015. Doing complete services on time will result in a favorable results with any Subaru. The downfall is the folks whom do the minimum and not what is truly supposed to be done - major services every 30k or 30 months, and 100k service or 100 months (which this one will be due for). You can find those items here: https://www.licmotorsports.com/maintenance.html

Josh

4/6/2020 08:37:18 am

In regards to the oil, I knew this vehicle had been losing oil to either a leak or over consumption. I had been checking it pretty often and a week before my daughter drove it, the stick was low. So I added 2 qts. Even though the stick read full after that, it sounds like it still may have been 2 qts low still. One term the mechanic used when he looked at it was that the rod was over extended. Is this considered the same as throwing the rod (another term he used) or is over extending something different, maybe referring to the bearings like you mentioned.
Thanks again for your advice.

LIC Motorsports

4/6/2020 09:51:23 am

JOSH- you didn't "leak" two quarts of oil, let alone 1/4 qt...If you were to pour 1 qt of oil on the ground, it would take up about a 10ft circumference - the engine has consumed/burned this oil and that's a sign of a bad motor. In turn, running that low on oil is what caused the rod bearing failure not anything your daughter did or didn't do. Never heard of the term "over extending" your mechanic is using but regardless you also didn't "throw a rod", this is what happens when the rod exits the block and makes a big hole.

Josh

4/6/2020 10:12:39 am

I know you've mentioned in the past how the 3.6 is one of Subaru's better motors. I know you've mentioned the oil capacity is higher, around 7.5 qt I think. Does the 3.6 have issues with burning through oil?

LIC Motorsports

4/6/2020 10:22:31 am

Yes they are 7 qts capacity vs. 4.5 like your current model. Yes the 3.6L's burn oil, typically a lot but the capacity is much larger - so burning 1 qt of 7 qts vs. 1qt of 4.5 qts is far less percentage wise. When you're missing 2 qts in a 4.5 qt system, its 45% of the capacity. In the 7qt system its only 25% ish...HUGE difference and makes all the difference long term.

Sam

4/11/2020 02:41:54 pm

Ok, so I'm looking at buying a Subaru. Know they've got head gasket issues because of the material made out of.

But - what percentage of them actually fail? I know it's more common than in other types of vehicles, but how much more common? Talking 50% of them? 80% 30%?

Also - if I'm looking at them between the 120-140xxx mile range, and am checking for leaking oil between the head block/surfaces, is that a pretty good indicator? How long before they blow are they likely to start showing indicators? If I don't find any indicators, are they likely good to go for a while?

I realize these are all generalizations, and I'm getting a subaru-experienced mechanic to do a pre-purchase inspection, just trying to figure out prevalent these issues are and/or if they can likely be avoided if checking for these things.

LIC Motorsports

4/13/2020 08:44:25 am

For the model years listed on the site, its a guarantee to have this failure, as the HG's have a design flaw and if they aren't replaced with MLS one's - even if the job was done with OEM one's (at the dealer or an independent) - they will fail again.

Martin

4/12/2020 07:47:40 pm

Looked at a couple Subaru Outbacks this weekend. One was an 09 with 160k and an 05 with 145k. Both priced $3900. The 09 supposedly had the timing belt done at 110k. For the 05, the seller did not know. Both of these vehicles ran well, good shape otherwise. I knew nothing about this HG problem, until I stumbled across this blog. I'm thinking I should run away from both of these. Any advice?

LIC Motorsports

4/13/2020 08:41:34 am

If you're not budgeting for HG repair, which will come in at the cost of what you're looking to spend for the car, then these likely are not the car(s) you're looking for.

LIC Motorsports

5/1/2020 07:36:59 am

ANITA- As mentioned in other posts, although the turbo models do not suffer from the issues mentioned in this article, it doesn't mean it can't still have head gasket related issues - but it won't be due to the faulty design. As with any turbo model Subaru, you'd want records that someone has been diligently maintaining it.

Chris

5/2/2020 04:00:35 pm

Thanks so much for the great article and incredibly informative responses! If I may add to the pile…

Took my 2000 2.5L Outback sedan with 112K miles (live in the city, drive very little) to the dealer for its regular fluid and filter checkup yesterday and was given the dreaded HG news :-( They also said the transmission harness needs to be replaced because of a leak.

Sounds like I should consider having someone other than the dealer do the HG work to avoid the risk the same faulty HG’s are used? Not to mention their quote exceeding the KBB value (despite the car's otherwise pristine condition). Also, any suggestions on the transmission harness issue?

Thank you!

LIC Motorsports

5/4/2020 09:35:38 am

Hard to say what you have going on with the transmission harness but HG would be expected at this point for your era vehicle. And yes, I have the same conversations with folks on value vs cost of repairs when it comes to this work. Most still do it, as with so many other vehicles, if you sell your car to replace it with another used one - you have no idea the issues you're inheriting vs just fixing yours. But not matter how you cut it, yes, you will spend more than the car is worth on this repair (if it's done properly).

Chris

5/4/2020 07:56:06 pm

Understood and appreciated. You really are a great resource - thanks again!

Michael Hannaford

5/24/2020 06:43:46 pm

Hi there,
Thank you for the great article! I'm just about decided to buy a used 2009 wrx with 130k km on it. Ive had a 2004 and 2008 outback before, both of which had issues with head gaskets. if i read your post right, the wrx is exempt from these issues. could you provide me with a brief explaination? Does that engine use a different type or material gasket, or something else?
Cheers,
Michael

LIC Motorsports

5/26/2020 07:30:47 am

As mentioned in other posts, although the turbo models do not suffer from the issues mentioned in this article, it doesn't mean it can't still have head gasket related issues - but it won't be due to the faulty design. As with any turbo model Subaru, you'd want records that someone has been diligently maintaining it.

Mira

5/26/2020 01:41:02 pm

So happy that I've found your blog! I've leased 2016 Impreza, but had to give it away due to temporarily moving to Europe. I still feel bad about not being able to keep that car. I got back to US and in August 2019 I purchased Subaru Legacy 2009, 2.5i, 170 hp nine months ago at the local dealership. It had 73,499 miles. I payed $7584. Oil change was done four days ago. The report mentions "head gaskets are just starting to leak".
It will cost at least $2000. to fix it. Mechanic at the dealership said it could fail either tomorrow or within next two years. Now there is 76,749 miles on the car. My work is 3.1 miles from home. I've read most of your comments and I'm not sure what to do. I love this car but I'm afraid it will proof not a very reasonable investment to keep spending more on it. Would you please share your thoughts? Thank you. Mira

LIC Motorsports

5/26/2020 01:47:55 pm

Once you see the leak - its time to fix it, especially if you intend to keep it. Reason being is, it doesn't get better with time, only worse (naturally). If you're inclined to not spend much more money on the car, I would second guess this process, as I have yet to see anyone perform a proper HG repair for only $2k and at your mileage/age of car, you'll also need to do the timing components and other maintenance items at the same time.

Mira

5/26/2020 06:14:47 pm

Thank you so much for your response. I am thinking about trading this car and leasing a new one. All of 2020 Impreza reviews are emphasizing the weakness of the engine and overall poor reliability. Unfortunately, my budget is limited. At the same time I don't want to drive a car without any flair. Is there something there that you could recommend? I greatly and truly appreciate your expertise. Mira

LIC Motorsports

5/27/2020 07:14:18 am

MIRA- leasing is actually always a great option, as it only requires you do the bare minimum maintenance (least expensive to maintain) and if anything goes wrong, its covered under warranty.

In the Impreza/Crosstrek price range, really hard to suggest much else to be honest.

Mira

5/27/2020 10:29:40 am

I thank you very much.

Arthur

6/3/2020 04:48:34 am

I owned a Subaru in the 1970's and another in the 1980's. Both leaked like a sieve from the heads. This is a design problem, in my opinion. Many different head gaskets have been tried but none have worked consistently. A mechanic told me the engine was just too "flimsy". I interpreted his comments to mean the engine block needed more mass to prevent distortion along the edge with the head. This may be why the larger engine has fewer problems with head gasket leakage.

LIC Motorsports

6/3/2020 07:24:33 am

Aside from what's listed in this article and its gasket design flaw, yes, there is other underlining issues in regards to the motors. The biggest underlining issue we have seen is that the engines only have 12 headstuds (6 per cylinder head). We have done extensive testing of how just different torque settings and gaskets affect the distortion of the surfaces, even following SOA protocol on torque sequence.

The main downfall of these engines is not enough material is allocated. The late closed deck block 2.2L of 90's, were the best motor Subaru made, literally they had no issues and would make it 300k+ miles like clockwork - sadly those motors have been discontinued for a very long time now.

Sharon Goldberg

6/21/2020 04:52:38 pm

Hello! Would you be so kind to give me your opinion on my issue. 2011 outback (legacy?)2.5 L- 4 cyl. So...started running hot (red temp light -check engine). Had a pressure check done found crack in the radiator repaired radiator temperature gauge and radiator cap. All great for about a week, then red light started coming on again. A variety of things going on with coolant when gets hot, sometimes boiling with steam ,sometimes air bubbles, one time foaming. the guy who put in new tradiator for me Said that the engine is pulling the water/coolant from the radiator I and can’t figure out where it’s going. If I fill up the radiator every day or so it stops the light from coming on. when all this started the dreaded head gasket possibility came up although still in denial!! So I’ve been told the next step is to get another pressure check and the ‘chemistry’ test I think to check for Exhaust gas in coolant. After these tests should have a better idea of what might be wrong . some of the signs of a head gasket leak are not there as per my friend which makes it a mystery. Would love to know your thoughts on the matterand if you suggest that’s the right way forward. Thank you so so much, cheers!

LIC Motorsports

6/22/2020 07:57:34 am

Guaranteed you have exhaust gases in the cooling system, which in turn pushes the coolant out of the system. You have blown head gaskets...this happened when it overheated the first time. It warped the heads and caused this scenario to continue, which is why replacement of radiator/hoses/coolant can't and won't fix it by itself. You need a head gasket replacement job performed (this must include resurface of the cylinder heads too).

Sharon Goldberg

6/21/2020 04:56:43 pm

Hi this is Sharon with the 2011 outback overheating issue Just sent a message about . forgot to tell you how many miles are on the car 210,000 In case that’s of interest!! Been a great car so far I had it for about a year and a half and I’ve put on about 20,000 miles since I bought it so I travel for work. Thanks again!

LIC Motorsports

6/22/2020 08:01:00 am

I wouldn't recommend performing the head gasket service without an engine replacement at the same time - its costly and you're at the tail end of longevity for your current motor. The work is literally all the same, it's just the added cost of the short block...yes it's costly but so is this job and to have it only run for only another "x" amount of miles doesn't make the best financial sense.

Sharon Goldberg

6/22/2020 08:08:03 am

Hi, Thanks for quick reply and your diagnosis. This is dreadful news. I’m having a some analytics being done right now which sadly Give me the same results as you say. So basically what you’re saying is it’s not really worth fixing the car and look at selling it?? Thank you very very much Sharon

Charles Anderson

6/21/2020 10:55:41 pm

I have a 2008 Outback 2.5i 5MT that I bought new in Aug 2007 and have driven for 42,000 miles.
The car has lived its whole life in a heated underground parking garage in Vancouver BC.
Last month I had the timing belt, tensioners, idlers, water pump, etc replaced, not because of any issue, but because they were 13 years old. There's no signs of oil leaks or any other problem.
With the head gasket issue lurking in the background, is there any driving or maintenance schedule I should follow, as I'd like to keep driving this car until both it, and I rust away.

LIC Motorsports

6/22/2020 08:04:19 am

Sounds like a gem! I would recommend, like SOA, to stay on top of service intervals. Subaru is very basic, 30k miles or 30 months, 60k miles or 60 months. Your timing is/was 105k miles or 105 months (should of been done about 4 years ago). Car's that sit and/or get driven very little tend to get damaged too - its best to get it out at min 1x a week for a good 30 min drive, gets all the fluids heated up, gets exhaust good and hot (efficient), and helps reduce excess carbon in engine.

LIC Motorsports

6/22/2020 08:12:33 am

SHARON GOLDBERG- I think it financially only makes sense to replace the motor at the same time when you have that high mileage already on the car, its a costly repair, only makes sense to fix it so it can run another 200k miles, not perhaps 20-30k miles. Keep in mind, if you haven't already done catalytic converters and 02 sensors, that will come due in short order as well. This is typical for high mileage Subarus.

Kyle

6/22/2020 09:49:37 am

I have a 2011 4-cyl outback with 112,000 miles. How often do you see a cracked radiator that isn’t caused by faulty HG’s? I went through the unpleasant experience of replacing the HG’s on this vehicle last year (approximately 105k miles at the time). The radiator was not replaced when the repair was done. Two weeks ago, the car began overheating again and I was told by my mechanic that the radiator was cracked. I paid to get the radiator replaced but I am worried that the HG repair last year wasn’t done properly and that this cracked radiator is just the first sign of the HG’s going out again. The car seems to be running fine now but after reading many of the comments, I wondering if I should just use this opportunity now to sell it and cut my future potential losses. For what it’s worth, I did replace the timing belt last year as well.

LIC Motorsports

6/22/2020 10:03:21 am

Unfortunately once the car overheats, it will cause head gaskets failure again...as the fail point is the aluminum cylinder heads and aluminum block - the heat distorts the surface and you end up with "head gasket failure" but its not due to gaskets, its due to the overheating and warping of the heads. Anytime we do HG replacement and/or timing (105k) service we always replace the radiator for this exact reason you're experiencing.

azheatsubarudriver

7/9/2020 12:49:37 pm

Hello, I have enjoyed reading through this thread and can empathize with so many other subaru owners that have come before and after me.

I have a 2015 Subaru Forester 2.5i. from about 60,000-80,000 miles my car was needing a quart of oil in between oil changes and I was smelling burnt oil all the time when getting out of my car. Subaru resealed my engine covering 2/3 of the cost and charging me $800 out the door with a new battery.

I went on a road trip for about a month and on my way back to arizona my car overheated in Bylthe. I usually drive with the a/c full blast cause it is hot around here. I stopped, got some food, let the car cool down and drove home with heater blasting and I don’t think the engine overheated light came back on. I took it to the dealer, they said the radiator was empty and they filled it. two weeks later it overheated again and they end up replacing the thermostat and a bunch of tubes all for $20, the cost of the radiator cap. I was happy they did the repairs for basically nothing.

1 year later, I am at 107,000 and I went on an afternoon drive through the country roads east of phoenix, specifically the 87 to the 188 to US 60 (Globe) and back through Superior into phoenix.

about 15 minutes before globe, after we had been driving about 3 hours with A/C blasting My engine overheated light came on. i did not notice the light until it flashed a second time but my copilot at that time told me it had come on like a half hour ago.

we drove the remaining distance to globe and stopped for about an hour. I bought a quart of oil and checked my oil. It looked like I couldn’t see a line between the dots and only the tip of the stick was registering oil. I was about 3,600 miles from my last oil change in march.

we got back on the road and the overheated engine light came on after maybe 15 minutes. we stopped for another hour or so in superior, then drove back about 50 minutes to Gilbert AZ where the engine overheated light only came on about a min from my friend’s house where i dropped her off. we talked at her house for about 90 minutes and then I drove the remaining 30 minutes back to my place and the light did not come back on.

I have an appointment tomorrow at the subaru dealer bright and early before it gets so hot out here. it’s about 30 minutes from my house.

I take great care of my car and always do the service suggested and am on top of everything.

My dealer has been good in the past about working with subaru corporate to cover unexpected faults.

what do you think I should do at this point? i have new suspension, new front axel, the recent engine reseal, new tires, the car is really fun to drive and I love it.

if they say head gasket would it be better to replace the engine if I want to have the car for a long time more, or should I just trade it in and move on? with everything I have mentioned would having the basic head gasket job done with resurfacing be an adequate fix?

If I don’t do the work what do you think is appropriate trade in value since the car is in awesome shape aside from this issue?

I have seen you mention overheating not being properly fixed and the head gasket issue comes back to haunt. do you think I might have needed a head gasket repair back when they changed the thermostat? I will add that in december I had a small accident where i swerved and drivers side front bumper knicked the rear passenger bumper on a big old chevy tahoe. could that impact have compromised the radiator and caused an issue there? I had the bumper and headlight replaced through my insurance.

Thanks for your time and advice,
falling out of love with my subaru

LIC Motorsports

7/9/2020 12:59:40 pm

For sure the issue transpired back when you were out of coolant. I have only seen one time ever a thermostat being bad and typically they fail open, not closed, so its a non issue if that happens.

Once a Subaru has overheated, the damage is already done and it can take about 1 year for the issue to become consistent, like you're now experiencing.

The issue is warped cylinder heads (you need the block inspected too) but based on your oil consumption - it wouldn't be a bad idea to do a new block at the same time, as the work is literally the same just the added cost of the part (and yes its costly but likely the only route one should take, given your current scenario).

Your accident might have caused more issues but seems its more relating to back what transpired originally as its been consistently getting worse - which is typical once a Subaru has overheated initially.

AZHEATSUBARUDRIVER

7/9/2020 01:20:47 pm

Thanks for your quick response!

Do you think I should have the work done or try to trade it at the dealer?

fun stuff!

Thanks again!

LIC Motorsports

7/9/2020 01:23:47 pm

AZHEATSUBARUDRIVER- I think its pretty hard to justify that expense only a 5 year old car.

Jen

7/24/2020 08:24:26 am

Hi there

I have a 2015 forester with 180 000 km-I noticed high oil consumption around 140 and Subaru replaced the PCV valve which didn’t help. They are now stating my engine might just be consuming extra oil due to the high km. This seems like a poor response-I know you mention the 2015 models don’t seem to have the head gasket issue but is there another issue pointing to high oil consumption? I’m having to top up oil at 4000km from last oil change.

LIC Motorsports

7/24/2020 08:32:25 am

Anything Subaru over 100k miles (162k km) is going to consume more oil then it previously did. The PCV is not going to fix this - it never does, as its an internal motor issue (worn rings, carbon build up, distorted cylinder walls). Subaru says anything under 1 qt (1 L) per 1200 miles (2000 km) is "Normal" - which it is NOT. But being as yours is burning at a rate of approx 1 qt/L per 2500 miles (4000 km), this isn't too alarming but it is something to be mindful of, as this vehicle will not make it another 160-170 km like this. You will notice the rate of consumption will drastically go up as your mileage goes up. In the next 50k km or so, you will be burning that 1 L every 1500-2000 km or less.

AZheatDriver

7/24/2020 09:55:58 am

hey Jen,

my Subaru was consuming oil from about 50,000 miles to 80,000. about 1 quart every 3000 miles. mine turned out to be an engine leak and subaru covered 2/3 the cost of a cam carrier reseal. honestly, it has been better since they resealed it. I added oil when my car overheated but I don’t think that was an issue that day. subaru said my radiator cap wasn’t holding pressure (kind of the same thing they said the year before when this happened) and replaced it. my car has not overheated since. i am at 107,000 miles right now. they recommend drive it for 1000 miles and is nothing happens then plan to do my spark plugs and regular maintenance at next oil change. he wanted to wait because if it is still overheating the spark plugs will be free with the head gasket job. they tested my car and said there were no signs of head gasket damage. hoping for the best as I do enjoy my vehicle.

good luck with yours jen. do you smell burning oil? when my engine was leaking oil I could smell it after driving.

LIC Motorsports

7/24/2020 10:20:45 am

I would highly recommend not replacing any parts until you determine if the HG's are compromised, which honestly they likely are - this scenario can take up to 1 year for it to represent itself. You can also have a cooling system check to ensure no C0 is in the system, if it has C0, HG's are breached and you will need a HG repair job (which you would do the other items at the same time). Nobody has to guess on HG's, tools are made to check the system and give you definitive results on the spot.

Ethan Schwartz

7/30/2020 07:11:50 am

I've got a 2001 Subaru Outback with 146,000 miles on it. I recently took it to my mechanic and he diagnosed my car as having a leaky head gasket, but it's leaking oil not coolant. He recommended just replacing the car because it wouldn't be worth it to fix. He said there a couple quick fixes/temporary measures I could try while I search for a new vehicle. He said you could try a sealant like Blue Devil, but he hasn't had much success with any of them. Is there any sealant for this issue that you've had success with? And would I have to get the kind of sealant that pours directly into your oil or into the radiator?

LIC Motorsports

7/30/2020 07:17:37 am

It is normal for your model year to have a HG failure and for it to leak oil and not coolant. The DOHC engines leaked coolant, SOHC engines like yours leak oil. I highly do NOT recommend Bar's leak like products either - it will do nothing to fix whats wrong and in fact will typically cause failures even sooner, as it sludge's up the system.

Ethan

7/30/2020 07:45:04 am

Is there anything I could try that would give the car a little longer life while I search for a new vehicle? Or do I just need to replace it ASAP.

LIC Motorsports

7/30/2020 07:48:22 am

ETHAN- your issue didn't just happen, its been going on for a long time, it was only just pointed out to you recently. So yes, it should be dealt with in a timely matter (either fixing it and/or replacing the car) prior to the car having a catastrophic failure

Gwyni

7/31/2020 04:26:04 am

Hi! You seem so knowledgeable! I have a 2010 Subaru Forester with 118000 miles. I was told I was starting to have a head gasket problem by the dealership in October 2019. He suggested I had time before I get it fixed and that I should do the timing belt at the same time. Fast forward now. I have been driving with no problems. Just yesterday I heard a scraping sound like something was dragging on the road but don’t see anything. Parked the car went into work then drove home and scrapping sound started as I was leaving then stopped. Still driving fine. I have an appointment with the dealership for service on Monday. I was going to bite the bullet and fix the head gasket issue and timing belt. They originally quoted me around $2400. I don’t mind paying even up to $3k if this is going to help me keep the car another 5 years. What are your thoughts and recommendations? What else should I do/fix to maximize its longevity? Spark plugs? I live in Pittsburgh.

LIC Motorsports

7/31/2020 09:07:01 am

Really hard to say what you have going on from afar. I have never heard of HG's and 105k (timing component job) done properly be done for that inexpensive - it can't be done complete/proper for that dollar amount. Do know that the dealer will use the same faulty gaskets that are in your vehicle currently and they will fail again. In addition, we highly recommend replacing the radiator/hoses/cap at the same time as this work, as they habitually fail between 120-140k miles and/or 10-12 years...when this happens, if you don't catch it immediately...you overheat your car and end up doing head gaskets again. Keep in mind, at your mileage, you are also now due for the 120k service (which a 60k interval). Be sure to have this done at same time.

Jane L.

7/31/2020 08:38:38 pm

Hi. I just happened upon your site and thank you for such great information.
I am going to look at a 2003 Subaru Outback for my son tomorrow. It has 177,000 miles on it and looks in pretty mint condition. Is there anything you would recommend I look for and ask regarding head gaskets? It is a private party selling. Older couple one owner car. I loved my 1999 Forester that went forever! Thank you!

LIC Motorsports

8/3/2020 04:55:41 pm

I would just be sure it has records and ensure head gaskets have been done recently. The motors, if we well cared for, tend to make it 200-225k miles or so. Keep in mind at the mileage of this car...its going to be due for lots of work: 30k maintenance interval, 2nd timing service, and this is the mileage the cats tend to fail on these cars. I would highly recommend you have it checked out by a mechanic.

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

8/3/2020 06:38:47 pm

I solved my Subaru problem...

I sold it and will NEVER buy another one. My 98 was sold to someone who put an additional 200k on it. 330k before an accident totalled it.

At 92k my head gasket was diagnosed.

I still talk to people, warning them to research and when a problem does surface, to aggressively go after Subaru. I've talked to so many who are on their second transmission... Under 100k! (2011-14 seem to be particularly brutal years.)

Since the Subaru CVT and head gasket issues could lead to a failure on the road, it could lead to a serious accident.

Go to this page if you've had engine, transmission, steering, suspension or any safety problems

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

Make Subaru pay for their "disposable car" design philosophy.

If you're shopping for a Subaru, why? If you are so insistent on buying a car that'll fail on you, buy a Nissan. They're cheaper and easier to walk away from after their transmission takes a dump.

Good riddance!

LIC Motorsports

8/7/2020 10:17:15 am

Gretchen L Skypeck- For sure 2 types of people, those that LOVE them and those that HATE them because they were unaware of issues. A lot of folks whom claim "It's a Subaru, it'll run forever"...this true in the old days, late 80's, early/mid 90's era engines (1.8L and 2.2L).

The 15+ model we have not seen issues with but in all fairness, those cars are only 5 years old and I have yet to see one at 100k+, so I don't know the long term on those as of yet. Any modern car should run trouble free for 100k miles, its what happens from that point on that matters if you ask me.

Simone

9/8/2020 02:54:49 am

Hi,
Guess it was time for my 2010 Forrester to go, but I got 333,529 miles in 10 years... just 3weeks ago blew out my catalytic converter after oil and engine light came on... there was no burning smell or leaking oil .... just very little to no oil on dipstick and started knocking.... Now with that kind of mileage bought another one..... hopefully the 2020s are okay... didnt read this until after new car was bought...
Will have to keep an eye out

Mike Mitchel

9/15/2020 12:56:40 pm

Have 2004 Forester with only 150,000KM (94k miles) in excellent condition, all service done at Subaru or specialty independent shop that mainly does Subarus. Asked mechanic to do preemptive inspection and recommended changing timing belt and water pump at around $1500CAD (never done). Also recommended cleaning engine leaks and adding dye to determine where oil is leaking from presumably for head gasket possibility. Car is running 100% fine now, never any leaks or any issues.

1) Is it possible that SOME of these Foresters will not experience any head gasket issue or are they all 100% doomed?
2)If we are planning on keeping this car 2 years max in any event does it make sense to replace belt/water pump...ie will there be a warning sign before it really needs to be done? Hoping to sell in 12-18 months without doing this work.
3)does dye advice make sense for head gasket issue?

LIC Motorsports

9/15/2020 01:02:26 pm

The vehicle is actually way past due on the timing service, it should be on its second timing interval, as its 105k miles or 105 months. Every one of these vehicles will have HG failures, its a design flaw. Hard to justify buying a car knowing the work hasn't been done and hoping it will last even longer - hard to give that ill advised recommendation on my end. You can simply testing the cooling system for C0 - if present, it has a HG leak. IN addition, if its already leaking, which sounds like it is, its coming from the cylinder heads...which is a HG leak. None of these cars escape this unfortunately.

Daniel Kaplan

9/16/2020 03:38:16 am

Ihave a 2005 XT. Around 1500K on it. i have a warped head. exhaust is pushing coolant out of the system causing an overheat at the roadside. Failed a pressure test. i have a mechanic with the same car as a daily-driver suggesting 2700 to remove/machine/replace the head, and do other odd/sods like timing belt and such. Is this worth doing if my plan is to get 2 more years out of the car? i have had suspension done on all corners, and the brakes have also been serviced recently. I guess the main question is "does a proper machining of the head last a while if done property"? I think the cause of the initial warping might have been an overheat from this same problem as opposed to some oil deprivation issue. I keep oil full and fresh.

Many thanks.

LIC Motorsports

9/16/2020 08:15:18 am

A couple of things. One, I have never heard of anyone being able to do that amount of work properly for that inexpensive - even if using inferior parts, its really not possible (no matter where you reside on the planet). And two, if you don't find the cause of the overheating, yes this will happen again even after the work. The turbo models do NOT have gasket issues, so you clearly have an overheating issue - which could be from cooling system and/or car not running properly causing excess heat.

Daniel

9/21/2020 03:31:30 pm

Thanks for the heads up. the mechanic is sort of a friend, so i'm getting family/friends rate. I think the overhead might have been due to an undiagnosed hose/pump issue which will be uncovered during the pull out of the engine. I'm very grateful for your reply, and will keep you posted!

Mer B

9/21/2020 03:13:14 pm

Hello, just came across this thread while searching for my first car and have thought about looking into a Subaru but have been super wary about it because of the infamous head gasket issue. I saw a listing for a 2014 Subaru Impreza 2.0i with about 121k miles on it, and am not sure if it's worth taking a look at. When, if ever, did Subaru fix the head gasket problem? The general advice I have heard is that up until about 2011 the Impreza was still having problems. Is this a car that's worth looking into? I highly appreciate any feedback!

LIC Motorsports

9/21/2020 03:20:36 pm

I would steer clear of any 11-13 and honestly even the 14 non turbo models, as they don't have head gasket issues but they were all part of a class action lawsuit due to massive oil consumption issues. This also extends into other models of this era. Even though they claim 2014's aren't affected, I have seen numerous 2014 with the same issues.

We advise, 2015+ models, as I have yet to see any issues with them.

Here is an article about the engine oil issues on that era you're looking into: https://jalopnik.com/subaru-settles-lawsuit-over-oil-burning-cars-1752805682

Sal

10/31/2020 07:57:36 am

I bought a 2008 subaru legacy 2.5l non turbo, 5 speed manual from private owner. Beautiful clean car, but I started feeling a grind when shifting from 4th to 5th gear. I did find this was a very common issue with these transmissions after doing some research online and reading a few forms. I took it to the dealership for a free diagnostic. The mechanic also did an inspection on the whole car since I have been smelling an oil burning smell after parking in the garage. The mechanic told me my head gasket was leaking and since I had 105k miles it was pretty close to timing chain replacement, so I might as well do that and at the same time take care of the head gaskets. After reading the comments on this page I see head gasket issue is also a common problem 😑. I have never heard of any other vehicle that naturally had head gasket issues specially at such low mileage.

LIC Motorsports

11/2/2020 09:01:03 am

Unfortunately this is all too common, as you can see through reading these posts. Even if you fix it a the dealer, the issue will come back as they don't use revised gaskets, they use the same faulty ones that will present the same issue(s). And yes, when doing the HG repair, replace all the timing components (on your car its a timing belt, hydraulic tensioner, 3 idlers, crank and cam seals, water pump, and accessory belts). We highly recommend replacing the radiator at the same time, as they habitually break between 12-15 years or about 100-120k miles...when this happens you overheat your car and you end up with warped heads, another head gasket job.

Flavien

11/8/2020 07:14:00 pm

Hi there!
I’m looking for a forester or outback max 200K
Which years can you suggest me and which one avoid?
Thanks!

LIC Motorsports

11/9/2020 07:24:36 am

You would want one with all the service records and showing that the HG repair work has been done, as that is right at the km where these cars become the most expensive.

We highly recommend at min the 15+ models, as they don't have the HG issues mentioned in this post. It's just that much less money you will need to put into it.

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

11/9/2020 07:43:45 am

How many 80k+ mile 15+s have you seen?

Guess what... I met a guy in San Diego working at AutoZone who had a 17 with the dreaded HG issue.

Met a unkept surfer dude at a WinCo parking lot with a 16... The car had Arizona plates and a HG replacement at just over 100k.

I don't know if it's abuse, bad PCVs, coolant or oil change neglect, but I'm hearing it out here. I don't miss a chance to warn Subaru owners so that, if problems arise, they can go in knowing there's a history. If I knew that early on myself, I would have handled my own situation *very* differently.

A manufacturer with 20 years of HG issues is unacceptable.

LIC Motorsports

11/9/2020 07:54:49 am

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit- we have only had a handful of 15+ 100k+ vehicles but of those, no issues (other then failed catalytic converter), and I should mention each of these cars was maintained like clockwork. Newer cars really shouldn't need much these days but lots of folks, especially Subaru people, tend to not take great care of their cars (just changing oil is not taking great care of any car and I hear this one often and its always the car that has issues). I think we had a good track record of maintenance - ensuring folks maintain the vehicle properly - it really seems to make a difference. But yes I agree, Suabru has HG issues on vehicles at min 20+ years old (even the 10-12 have issues) and its unacceptable if you ask me. Its not normal as a manufacture to just ignore it and I find it odd they've gotten away with it for so long.

LIC Motorsports

12/3/2020 07:01:56 am

BRANDON- The Infiniti's are very popular here in California and the VQ engines have proven to be very good and a solid setup. I have yet to have anyone have issues with those cars personally that I know.

TiredOfSubaruLiesAndDeceit

12/3/2020 08:12:30 am

Jatco makes Nissan and Infinity transmissions... Google it to your heart's delight.

Compared to Subaru, it's like jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

My OB made it to 94k or so before the HG issue did the engine in. Because the transmission issues doomed the car, I completely gave up on the car and a discounted new car or repair...

That car restart feature (instead if idling at a traffic light, it stops and restarts) is going to shorten engine life considerably.

My Nissan's CVT is problematic to the point of a class action lawsuit. A little research will help confirm that the Renault influence on Nissan after it's purchase in 2000 has been detrimental. My 99 Sentra is still on the road with 250k miles plus (sold to a friend). My 2015 Nissan Versa Note problems are possibly worse than Subaru (although much less financially painful). It now has 75k miles.

At 62k or so, the transmission started grinding. Flushing the CVT fluid did not improve things. I've had the control module has been updated to no benefit. Jatco makes transmissions for Mitsubishi too.

Don't get me started on Renault-influenced engines...

I think Scotty Kilmer has my back on Nissan. 😁

Jim

12/18/2020 12:04:07 pm

Do these head gasket issues apply to the 1999-2003 Phase 2 - 2.2l engines (EJ222 and 223)? My understanding is that they used the 2.5 type SOHC heads on a 2.2 block. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!

LIC Motorsports

12/18/2020 01:57:26 pm

The 2.2L engines are not subjected to this issue of HG failure as mentioned in this article.

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